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Discussion Starter #1
The other day I filled at Hess & they had a sticker on the premium pump stating 10% ethynol.
Now, unless I'm wrong, our cars can't run E85 or else it'll damage the fuel system. So is 5% that much of a big deal between the 2?
 

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E 85 is 85% Ethanol, 15 Gasoline. Since MTBE was outlawed, most gasoline manufacturers are using a 10% Ethanol blend to oxygenate their fuel...

On a side note, I did try E85 in a small amount once. Car ran fine, but the emissions computer didn't like what was coming out the pipe. I just filled up with regular gasoline and everything was fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The_Goat said:
E 85 is 85% Ethanol, 15 Gasoline. Since MTBE was outlawed, most gasoline manufacturers are using a 10% Ethanol blend to oxygenate their fuel...

On a side note, I did try E85 in a small amount once. Car ran fine, but the emissions computer didn't like what was coming out the pipe. I just filled up with regular gasoline and everything was fine.
Oh, I thought it was the other way around, never mind :rolleyes:
 

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The National Ethanol Coilition states the following: E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline, that is for easier starting. So E10 is 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline. There is a lot of misinformation about the use of ethanol. It is hard to sort it all out. A long time ago the car manufacturers stated that one can not run any more than E10 in our cars. The reasons included a variety of problems that would occur. BUT, then the manufacturers admitted that it was Methanol not Ethanol that caused the problem. As far as I know no one is using Methanol only Ethanol. Now back to the subject at hand, ethanol is 100 octane. It naturally increases the octane of any gas it is added to. On the other hand it contains less BTU's so it will take more alcohol to run a car than gasoline, meaning your mileage will drop about 1-2%. Alcohol burns cleaner and cooler than gasoline, so our engine internals aren't exposed to as many nasty chemicals. This I know for sure. The computer has to be flashed to burn E85. Beyond that I do not know, it is very confusing. Early data suggested that a constant exposure of Neoprene, (gasket material) to alcohol deteriorates the gasket. Now was that Methanol or Ethanol?? No one is talking about that anymore. AT one time I heard that intake and exhaust valves would have to be replaced because alcohol burns hotter, BULL! It is the other way around. Soo, the last I have heard is it is very expensive for current engines to be recertified for multiple fuels because of the EPA standards and that is the MAIN reason that manufacturers have not condoned the use of alcohol in our cars. Point: Some of my racing buddies have used alcohol for years in their engines....... As more pressure is put on manufacturers I think we will see aftermarket kits available similar to the buzz around propane and some computer geeks will get busy and develop a reflash for our cars increasing the volume of fuel, air-fuel mixture and change in the timing. Do it yourself.... purchase a gallon of E85, take it home, purchase a neoprene gasket and soak the gasket in the E85.... see what happens. If nothing happens, then possibly the only thing we need is a reflash of the computer. Oh yes, someone in a local dealership mentioned that they thought the muliple fuel cars had a stainless steel gas tank. I don't know, that one does not make sense. I think there is a lot of misinformation out there trying to get us to buy new. Sound familiar?:rolleyes:
 

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Just found a site that give info on alcohol conversion. www.running_on_alcohol.com. It basically says that there may some metal corruption, but everything else is OK. I also includes an article written by Mother Earth News on alcohol conversion. Interesting.
 

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I looked into what it would take to convert the GTO to run on E85 and I found out from numerous sources that it is ILLEGAL to modify the fuel system to run on a fuel not originally meant for the car. That sucks... I also was under the impression that any alcohol is very corrosive so all rubber parts and some metal ones have to be converted to stainless steel.
 

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It is also illegal to remove the cats, etc. Unless you live in a state with smog police, there is no way to determine. Yes, every car has to be certified by the EPA to run on a fuel, but that does not mean it won't work. In the article I mentioned, the fella recommended that you take components of your car and throw them into E85 for 30 days and see if they deterioriate. Additionally, they did the research on different plastics and gasket material, again most of it is OK. Did you ever get the feeling that corporate doesn't want you to change to alternataive fuels, rather buy a new car:rolleyes: ???

I went back to the article, most plastics tolerate alcohol quite well. Some areas of concern: In the fuel tank, the float may be plastic. Few metals anymore are corrosive. Before 1970, most of the fuel lines were stainless steel and brass anyway. This is frustrating.

OMG, I just did a lengthy search and found a company that uses a teflon based polymer to prep your car for alcohol. the site is www.flexteck.com or "XcelPlus International", Inc on your search engine. I have purchased their DVD and put in an email for info on the LS2/GTO. This is getting interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
UdnUdnGTO said:
Did you ever get the feeling that corporate doesn't want you to change to alternataive fuels, rather buy a new car:rolleyes: ???

I went back to the article, most plastics tolerate alcohol quite well. Some areas of concern: In the fuel tank, the float may be plastic. Few metals anymore are corrosive. Before 1970, most of the fuel lines were stainless steel and brass anyway. This is frustrating.
Very good point. Is an E85 rating just another way to sell more cars "when the need arises"?
Having a BMW motorcycle, I read that forum. There have been a few adventurous riders that have used E85 and suffered no ill effects. The only problem, who's going to be the guinea pig?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The_Goat said:
On a side note, I did try E85 in a small amount once. Car ran fine, but the emissions computer didn't like what was coming out the pipe. I just filled up with regular gasoline and everything was fine.
What exactly was the problem with the emissions? Did a CEL come up?
 

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k1200lt said:
What exactly was the problem with the emissions? Did a CEL come up?
No problem with emissions, except it is not CERTIFIED by the EPA to run on alcohol. IN fact from info I have found, the emissions are actually better. E85 is the top of the alcohol food chain right now unless you do your own. The big issues are 1. Metal corrosion, mostly due to the chemicals used to "denature" the alcohol. 2. Same for some plastics usually the danger is gradual over a period of time. It can happen in the fuel tank with a particular kind of plastic float on the fuel pump or plastic materials in the fuel filter. 3. On older cars, alcohol is a cleaning agent. It will clean out your car from the fuel tank to the combustion chamber. Sometimes clogged filters bring your car to a screeching halt. More info will come out as gas prices continue to rise. Oh, interesting, gas prices just fell below $70 a barrel.
 

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Here's one for ya: Great Lakes Labs in Portage, MI offers a conversion kit by coating your fuel system with a teflon polymer, Teflon is totally impervious to Alcohol. Cost, $250 +
 

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IMO there's a big difference between a few days cold soak in E85, and running parts in a pressurized system with flow. a part may take a soak just fine, but when you add pressure, flow (which generates forces that try to remove particles) and in some places HEAT, you may end up with a totally different problem. given the mileage loss, you only end up saving a few pennies on E85 if you save that much. it takes a LOT of pennies to replace a fuel system that gets buggered up by bad gas. i'll stick to premium and maybe E10 or E15 tops, at least until the cost/benefit ratio is a little better
 

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What exactly was the problem with the emissions? Did a CEL come up?
CEL came up, that's about it. I just disconnected the battery, filled the tank up with 100% gasoline and the light never came back on. It was around the same time my throttle position sensor went out as well.. so that could have been causing the CEL to come on too.
 
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