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i Can find those at autozone, right?
LOL. They still make them. Just checked on one to see the price - it was stupid at over $300.00 I have seen them for far less, BUT, since everything is in short supply and the cargo ships are bottled up at the port, these are now worth $1K while supplies last, right? I do remember $150 each a year or so back.
 

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LOL. They still make them. Just checked on one to see the price - it was stupid at over $300.00 I have seen them for far less, BUT, since everything is in short supply and the cargo ships are bottled up at the port, these are now worth $1K while supplies last, right? I do remember $150 each a year or so back.
I went to autozone today to get some atf. It was sold out. The poor guy running the store looked in back and said they probably had some on a pallet, but they are so short staffed, there is no one to unpack the pallets.☹ He was barely keeping up with the customers waiting for him. I certainly respect everyone who is still getting up and going to work these days. Wish there were more.
 

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1967 400/400
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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
These are older Edelbrocks but they fit fine and run well on the old P65 dual quad intake. I believe the outer dimensions are similar for the newer Edelbrock carburetors.
Love the catch can and air cleaner!

I wasnt aware that there were (could be) any differences in the physical exterior dimensions of the Eddy carbs... Maybe someone else knows?

Im very interested in dual quad setups. They look so cool, just like trip's, but IMO, my performance level isnt worthy of either mod. The cam that Butler just sold me is the largest that they'd sell me for a 400.
Grab you a pair of these Offenhauser offset carb spacers and add them to a duel quad manifold. Mounts the carbs off to the sides to look like a cross ram. Then add your linkages.

View attachment 149326
Stop showing me stuff like this! Although, I cant imagine that any of this stuff plays well with a GTO hood.
 

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Love the catch can and air cleaner!

I wasnt aware that there were (could be) any differences in the physical exterior dimensions of the Eddy carbs... Maybe someone else knows?

Im very interested in dual quad setups. They look so cool, just like trip's, but IMO, my performance level isnt worthy of either mod. The cam that Butler just sold me is the largest that they'd sell me for a 400.

Stop showing me stuff like this! Although, I cant imagine that any of this stuff plays well with a GTO hood.
Mine fits under the factory hood, even with phenolic spacers under the carburetors. I have a reproduction ram air pan that I plan to modify to fit the dual quads for "cold air induction." I think Instig8tor has a similar set up and pictures, but you shouldn't look for that or you will spend yourself into more trouble.:cool:
 

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1964 Pontiac GTO
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I'm very surprised that no one is talking about them then. I found people willing to rebuild one for $400 but I had to supply the core. Of course there are plenty of people on summit, amazon, and eBay that are happy with their generic rebuilds, so I have no idea why cliff and Lars refuse to touch them
I just purchased an SMI 800 cfm stage 2 for my 461 stroker build from Butler. It was $589.00 and no core was required. SMI builds some of the best quadrajets and I called and spoke with him before purchasing. He told me he was 18-20 weeks out and if Butler had one on the shelf I should order from them. If you want to run a quadrajet I would definitely look at them. Cliff Ruggles is another good one to go with but you have to send him your core to be rebuilt. Great pricing on the best performing Rochester Quadrajet, Holley 4BBL and Holley 2BBL carburetors | Sean Murphy Induction
 

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I just purchased an SMI 800 cfm stage 2 for my 461 stroker build from Butler. It was $589.00 and no core was required. SMI builds some of the best quadrajets and I called and spoke with him before purchasing. He told me he was 18-20 weeks out and if Butler had one on the shelf I should order from them. If you want to run a quadrajet I would definitely look at them. Cliff Ruggles is another good one to go with but you have to send him your core to be rebuilt. Great pricing on the best performing Rochester Quadrajet, Holley 4BBL and Holley 2BBL carburetors | Sean Murphy Induction
Cliff no longer rebuilds Q-jets. He got out of that end of the business. He does still sell parts for the Q-jet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Cliff no longer rebuilds Q-jets. He got out of that end of the business. He does still sell parts for the Q-jet.
That explains why more people arent talking about them. When I tried last year, it was $300 for a core and $400 for the build. The cores are just getting too hard to find. Plus, why every Qjet appears to have been worked on with a hammer, is beyond me. Never saw one that wasnt smashed... and who wants to pay $800 for smoosh?
 

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i just got my quad in from coastal carbs, looks like a decent job, taking off a 600 edel, just not enough go juice.
will install this weekend and test it out, hope he's one of the 'good' rebuiders out there, it was 400.00 no core chg
 

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That explains why more people arent talking about them. When I tried last year, it was $300 for a core and $400 for the build. The cores are just getting too hard to find. Plus, why every Qjet appears to have been worked on with a hammer, is beyond me. Never saw one that wasnt smashed... and who wants to pay $800 for smoosh?
I'm not sure how the earliest carbs were, but GM sealed the air fuel adjusters on their carburetors at least as far back as the very early 70s and up through the end of the run in the 80s. They used these very hard steel plugs. To remove the plugs, either you had to drill them out, which took a very long time and would burn through a couple carbide drill bits to do it, or you hit them with a chisel and sheared off the corner of the baseplates. To drill them, you also typically had to remove the carb so most people went with the hammer and chisel approach. They set the carbs for emissions and economy from the factory.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
i just got my quad in from coastal carbs, looks like a decent job, taking off a 600 edel, just not enough go juice.
will install this weekend and test it out, hope he's one of the 'good' rebuiders out there, it was 400.00 no core chg
Fingers crossed for you. $400 sounds scary cheap for a Qjet
 

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1964 Pontiac GTO
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Cliff no longer rebuilds Q-jets. He got out of that end of the business. He does still sell parts for the Q-jet.
Looks like they still may offer it under services on their website Jim. Can always fill out the form and check but they do recoloring and base plate repair and rebuild. Since I did not have a core I went with SMI who finds late model cores to rebuild and they come setup already for use with 2004r transmissions.
 

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Looks like they still may offer it under services on their website Jim. Can always fill out the form and check but they do recoloring and base plate repair and rebuild. Since I did not have a core I went with SMI who finds late model cores to rebuild and they come setup already for use with 2004r transmissions.
It has been mentioned he will do certain carbs, so maybe the unique/rare carbs for restorations? But over on the PY website, he stated he closed shop/retired on the rebuilding side of things. He also pulled up stakes over at PY and no longer posts.

I think one of his employees may have taken over the rebuilding - I believe that was brought up here by someone if I am thinking clearly.
 

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It has been mentioned he will do certain carbs, so maybe the unique/rare carbs for restorations? But over on the PY website, he stated he closed shop/retired on the rebuilding side of things. He also pulled up stakes over at PY and no longer posts.

I think one of his employees may have taken over the rebuilding - I believe that was brought up here by someone if I am thinking clearly.
That is probably the case on the rebuilds. It seems like everyone rates SMI up there with Cliff on rebuilds. Can't wait to get my engine built and in the car and see what the SMI state 2 does performance wise.
 

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Don't want to step on anything here, but let's just say that SMI has become my carb person of choice. Other carbs required tuning when they arrived and possibly a blessing from a priest or shaman to get them to run right. Last three Quadrajets from SMI I didn't even have to adjust the idle when we fired up the engines.

I ran an Edelbrock AVS 800 on my red street 1967 GTO with a very mild roller and it was good from idle to redline and never a problem. The AFB style carbs are by far the best idling carb and I can usually drop idle speed much lower with it staying stable than with a Quadrajet or Holley. When I sold that GTO I removed the Edelbrock and installed a period correct Quadrajet. Looked great with the correct carb, but didn't idle or perform as good. We also have an AVS 800 on my son's '65 2+2 with a RAIV cam in the 421 and it just purrs along without any maintenance. Just removing the Edelbrock plate on the AVS gets it looking close to a stock AFB for that year..
 

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Since I see weekly carb postings on this site, and no one seems to love Edelbrock carbs or include them in the GTO options, I figured that I'd make a post to at least enlighten folks about why this carb can be great.

First of all, Edelbrock has improved their carbs and they now have an AVS2 line. Don't assume that all Eddy carbs are AVS2. It offers a dramatically improved fuel delivery circuit, which atomizes the fuel better.

  • Edelbrock carbs won't work well with more than 6psi of fuel pressure, so include the cost of a pressure regulator or fuel pump with your purchase. The Edelbrock fuel pump has an advantage over a regulator, because it's clockable, rebuildable, high perf, and it handles ethanol.
  • Eddy carbs have no filter, so include that in your purchase, too. And while we're on the topic, they do have a brass barbed inlet, so you can just hook up a rubber hose and GO! But they also have a banjo, chrome inlet setup, which reroutes the line to a better location, and is available with an inline filter. So consider that too.
  • If your heat crossover is active and youve had issues in the past with heat, Edelbrock makes a heat insulator gasket, which is reusable.
Why do I like these carbs? All areas of fuel delivery are easily tunable, without draining fuel, in less than 5 minutes. So you can separate and tweak:
  • Idle mixture.
  • Choke.
  • Off idle transition speed.
  • Off idle transition taper/ delivery.
  • Cruise.
  • Primary.
  • Secondary.
  • Air Flap.
I've been collecting and working on Pontiacs, nearly exclusively for about 35 years. During that time, the best tuners and accomplished racers who Ive met, have all agreed that Pontiac and Chevy engines arent at all alike. Carburation is a primary area where that is evident. Pontiacs nearly all accept "more fuel", than their Chevy counterparts, so don't under carb!

A 650 isn't adequate for a Pontiac 400. I run the 800 on mine and I love it. I can easily jet it down to be as economical as I wish, or open it up to fan the flames.

I'm no expert on carburation, but I do hang out with a bunch of experts and I do all of my own work, so this is from the horses ass mouth.

One thing that I'll say about pricing is: Compare apples to apples. Edelbrock carbs may appear cheaper, and maybe they truly are, but just make sure to include the cost of gaskets, pressure regulation, and lines.

A final note for anyone who's considering a Quadrajet. People have mistakenly given Quadrajets a bad name over the last 55 years. The internet set the world straight on this. Quadrajets are awesome! HOWEVER, "quality cores" are nearly non existent and parts chain rebuilds are extremely hit or miss, usually miss. Reputable rebuilders like Lars and CLiff will not even touch a parts chain rebuild. So keep in mind when you hear "Use a Quadrajet", that advice is often 15 years old when good Quadrajets were readily available.

If you insist on a Quadrajet, a reputable one will start at $800, in 2022, which it is as you read this. Not that you wont get lucky with a Summit or Amazon rebuild, but beware, very few people take a carb back once it has fuel in it.

This is the best resource that I've found for Edelbrock information.

I agree whole heartedly- my 66 with a stock 389 is running an Edelbrock AVS2 and the silly thing runs great! - starts even when cold, idles, accelerates like it should (it's not a real screamer of a combination) but dang I am impressed with it. I had/have a chance to get a nice FI system from a friend but I am very happy with the carb. Plan to upgrade a couple other cars to the AVS2 (in time)-- keep up the great posts!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Don't want to step on anything here, but let's just say that SMI has become my carb person of choice. Other carbs required tuning when they arrived and possibly a blessing from a priest or shaman to get them to run right. Last three Quadrajets from SMI I didn't even have to adjust the idle when we fired up the engines.

I ran an Edelbrock AVS 800 on my red street 1967 GTO with a very mild roller and it was good from idle to redline and never a problem. The AFB style carbs are by far the best idling carb and I can usually drop idle speed much lower with it staying stable than with a Quadrajet or Holley. When I sold that GTO I removed the Edelbrock and installed a period correct Quadrajet. Looked great with the correct carb, but didn't idle or perform as good. We also have an AVS 800 on my son's '65 2+2 with a RAIV cam in the 421 and it just purrs along without any maintenance. Just removing the Edelbrock plate on the AVS gets it looking close to a stock AFB for that year..
It's reassuring to hear that you've had pleasant experiences with the AVS, especially considering your extensive work with Pontiac performance. It's also good to learn about SMI... Awesome to know that there are reliable alternatives out there for Quadrajets.

Ive never done any jet or needle work on a Qjet... how would you compare it to the AVS?
 

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1971 GTO resto mod. Modified 428 HO, 4 sp (built by midwest muncie) Dana 60, 3.55 rear
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Since I see weekly carb postings on this site, and no one seems to love Edelbrock carbs or include them in the GTO options, I figured that I'd make a post to at least enlighten folks about why this carb can be great.

First of all, Edelbrock has improved their carbs and they now have an AVS2 line. Don't assume that all Eddy carbs are AVS2. It offers a dramatically improved fuel delivery circuit, which atomizes the fuel better.

  • Edelbrock carbs won't work well with more than 6psi of fuel pressure, so include the cost of a pressure regulator or fuel pump with your purchase. The Edelbrock fuel pump has an advantage over a regulator, because it's clockable, rebuildable, high perf, and it handles ethanol.
  • Eddy carbs have no filter, so include that in your purchase, too. And while we're on the topic, they do have a brass barbed inlet, so you can just hook up a rubber hose and GO! But they also have a banjo, chrome inlet setup, which reroutes the line to a better location, and is available with an inline filter. So consider that too.
  • If your heat crossover is active and youve had issues in the past with heat, Edelbrock makes a heat insulator gasket, which is reusable.
Why do I like these carbs? All areas of fuel delivery are easily tunable, without draining fuel, in less than 5 minutes. So you can separate and tweak:
  • Idle mixture.
  • Choke.
  • Off idle transition speed.
  • Off idle transition taper/ delivery.
  • Cruise.
  • Primary.
  • Secondary.
  • Air Flap.
I've been collecting and working on Pontiacs, nearly exclusively for about 35 years. During that time, the best tuners and accomplished racers who Ive met, have all agreed that Pontiac and Chevy engines arent at all alike. Carburation is a primary area where that is evident. Pontiacs nearly all accept "more fuel", than their Chevy counterparts, so don't under carb!

A 650 isn't adequate for a Pontiac 400. I run the 800 on mine and I love it. I can easily jet it down to be as economical as I wish, or open it up to fan the flames.

I'm no expert on carburation, but I do hang out with a bunch of experts and I do all of my own work, so this is from the horses ass mouth.

One thing that I'll say about pricing is: Compare apples to apples. Edelbrock carbs may appear cheaper, and maybe they truly are, but just make sure to include the cost of gaskets, pressure regulation, and lines.

A final note for anyone who's considering a Quadrajet. People have mistakenly given Quadrajets a bad name over the last 55 years. The internet set the world straight on this. Quadrajets are awesome! HOWEVER, "quality cores" are nearly non existent and parts chain rebuilds are extremely hit or miss, usually miss. Reputable rebuilders like Lars and CLiff will not even touch a parts chain rebuild. So keep in mind when you hear "Use a Quadrajet", that advice is often 15 years old when good Quadrajets were readily available.

If you insist on a Quadrajet, a reputable one will start at $800, in 2022, which it is as you read this. Not that you wont get lucky with a Summit or Amazon rebuild, but beware, very few people take a carb back once it has fuel in it.

This is the best resource that I've found for Edelbrock information.
Hey Army,
Good topic and write up.. One item on the costs to consider if switching to an Edelbrock over a Q-jet.. Most any edelbrock of the performer or thunder series is a square bore carb. Rochester's of course are spread bore. So you'll either have to add an adapter plate (sq bore to spread bore) which can affect some performance issues as well as raise the height of the carb and make less room for a good air cleaner under the hood and if one already has an Edelbrock performer RPM intake, it's 1 1/2" taller than stock. Other option is to buy a squarebore intake. Just a thought here..
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Hey Army,
Good topic and write up.. One item on the costs to consider if switching to an Edelbrock over a Q-jet.. Most any edelbrock of the performer or thunder series is a square bore carb. Rochester's of course are spread bore. So you'll either have to add an adapter plate (sq bore to spread bore) which can affect some performance issues as well as raise the height of the carb and make less room for a good air cleaner under the hood and if one already has an Edelbrock performer RPM intake, it's 1 1/2" taller than stock. Other option is to buy a squarebore intake. Just a thought here..
Thanks Jim. You brought up a critical point that I missed, so I'll go back and amend my initial post.

Even though the secondaries are noticeably bigger than the primaries, the Edelbrock AVS2 is a SQUARE BORE carb. HOWEVER, contrary to Edelebrocks claim that "you need an adapter to mount one on a spread bore manny", YOU DO NOT. Not Only have I done it twice, but I also confirmed with Edelbrock that it's an inaccurate instruction, in their manual.
 

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1971 GTO resto mod. Modified 428 HO, 4 sp (built by midwest muncie) Dana 60, 3.55 rear
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Thanks Jim. You brought up a critical point that I missed, so I'll go back and amend my initial post.

Even though the secondaries are noticeably bigger than the primaries, the Edelbrock AVS2 is a SQUARE BORE carb. HOWEVER, contrary to Edelebrocks claim that "you need an adapter to mount one on a spread bore manny", YOU DO NOT. Not Only have I done it twice, but I also confirmed with Edelbrock that it's an inaccurate instruction, in their manual.
Interesting Army.. I have the adapter plates.. Haven't tried it without.. I'll have to check into what you said..
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Interesting Army.. I have the adapter plates.. Haven't tried it without.. I'll have to check into what you said..
I bought the recommended Edelbrock adapter plate as well, and when I was installing the carb, I wondered what it was actually accomplishing. Then I became friendly with a top dog at Ede, and during a conv with him I questioned it. He said it wasnt' needed.

So when I did my GTO, I left it off. Been that way for a year now.

I guess I should post a few links...
 
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