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And nobody has mentioned that chevy orange paint !! Okay so why does everyone seem to want the 6x heads?
i think the orange paint gives another 500 rpm.lol my guess on the 6x heads is hardened seats and screw in studs and a combustion chamber that works good with 455 and stroker engines. they must port pretty good too but i don't know.
 

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And nobody has mentioned that chevy orange paint !! Okay so why does everyone seem to want the 6x heads?
[/QUOTE
Here's my take, and you've been around almost as long as I have: Until the early '90's, our old muscle cars were still ruling the streets. Even in stock form. New production domestics couldn't compare. Coming of age in the 70's, ten year old musclecars were not only affordable, but a lot more fun than the smogged out disco mobiles that were current at that time. Fast forward a bunch of years and our badass musclecars are still baddass---for what they are. Styling. Sound. Stance. Raw Emotion. Soul. But a new Camry will humble us. I like to drive my cars with spirit, but my days of replacing a blown up rear, trans, or engine on the weekend so I can get to work on Monday are over.
What has ALWAYS worked for myself and customers is to rebuild/restore these cars to close to stock condition, and then drive them like adults. It's cost effective, fun, and the car will behave on a drive to the coast or a formal night out to the opera. Factory parts= reliability. Aftermarket parts=issues.
What I've seen over the past 15 years or so with the new availability of aftermarket cranks, rods, heads, etc. is the misconception that that every street car has to have 500 HP or more to be worth anything at all. It's possible. A few gents here have just that. And these cars are rocket ships and a blast to drive. BUT---they are higher strung. More likely to be abused. More likely to break, and break PARTS. So---it's the 'end game' that determines the build. My slowest GTO happens to be my cruiser '67, with a stock detuned engine, carb, points, TH400 and retro-fitted 2.56 posi. But it's the one I drive most because it is the most drivable. 21 mpg on the road. Still no oil burning after almost 90,000 miles on my rebuild done in 1988 on a then-173,000 mile engine. Folks that are younger assume that a '60's or '70's car cannot be reliable and it will need an LS swap to be able to go to work and back. For anyone contemplating a build, I recommend some deep reflection on what the car will be used for and what your expectations are. When I built the 389 for my '65 in 1981, with the Sig Erson Hi Flo cam, etc. I had planned on racing the car on the strip. I ended up street racing the car and then using it as a daily driver for years and years. Now, 40+ years later, I wish it had a more mild cam to give it better low-end street manners. Tastes change as one ages. At 20 it was all about big cams, steep gears, and manual everything. Now, I want a mild cam, lazy gears, and power everything.
Rant over, just some of what I've seen and dealt with.
Each to their own which is the way it's should be but maybe I'm not old enough yet, mines a hobby car, weekend cruiser, show car, occasionally a race car. I'm not going cross country with it or to work everyday, I want my car to scare the passenger and maybe me sometimes, be loud, get bad milage, look great with a kick ass stereo, turn heads, win trophies, have things on it no one else's does and fix things I broke or improve things that's half the fun of this hobby. It's not a numbers car and I'm never selling it so I don't care if I'm upside down on it....I'm having a blast with it ( except the broken bolt) and doing exactly what I intended to do with it, I didn't have any cars for 30 years so I have a lot of making up to do because I'm not getting any younger and before I know it they will be taking my license away for racing down a sidewalk with it. If I want a quiet cross country drive with good milage I'll jump in our 2017 Impala...now my rant is over also...and I need a cigarette :LOL:
 

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First off, the 6X heads are much more plentiful compared to other heads. GM sold a lot of cars with these heads in the late 70's. They came from the factory with larger chambers that work well for today's gas, they all have the larger valves & screw in studs. They are just good heads for today and can be modified as much if not more than the other options. I can remember when the 6X heads where real cheap because everybody was looking to up the compression and get that last 10HP out of the motor by swapping out the 6X's and putting in the older higher compression heads. Today, we are wanting the larger chamber heads for the lower octane fuels. Many of us will stroke the engine to gain horsepower back, and then some, instead of running race fuel.

The 6X heads with the "8" stamped in it will be great for the 400 ci block. While the "4" 6X heads that came out on the 350's would have smaller chambers yielding higher compression and the need for more octane or deeper dished pistons.

I have a set of 6X "8" heads on a mildly built 400...there just what 87 octane wants.
I’m learning on the fly, that 70 455 block half buried in the ground has #15 heads , I’ll keep searching. !
 

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Here's my take, and you've been around almost as long as I have: Until the early '90's, our old muscle cars were still ruling the streets. Even in stock form. New production domestics couldn't compare. Coming of age in the 70's, ten year old musclecars were not only affordable, but a lot more fun than the smogged out disco mobiles that were current at that time. Fast forward a bunch of years and our badass musclecars are still baddass---for what they are. Styling. Sound. Stance. Raw Emotion. Soul. But a new Camry will humble us. I like to drive my cars with spirit, but my days of replacing a blown up rear, trans, or engine on the weekend so I can get to work on Monday are over.
What has ALWAYS worked for myself and customers is to rebuild/restore these cars to close to stock condition, and then drive them like adults. It's cost effective, fun, and the car will behave on a drive to the coast or a formal night out to the opera. Factory parts= reliability. Aftermarket parts=issues.
What I've seen over the past 15 years or so with the new availability of aftermarket cranks, rods, heads, etc. is the misconception that that every street car has to have 500 HP or more to be worth anything at all. It's possible. A few gents here have just that. And these cars are rocket ships and a blast to drive. BUT---they are higher strung. More likely to be abused. More likely to break, and break PARTS. So---it's the 'end game' that determines the build. My slowest GTO happens to be my cruiser '67, with a stock detuned engine, carb, points, TH400 and retro-fitted 2.56 posi. But it's the one I drive most because it is the most drivable. 21 mpg on the road. Still no oil burning after almost 90,000 miles on my rebuild done in 1988 on a then-173,000 mile engine. Folks that are younger assume that a '60's or '70's car cannot be reliable and it will need an LS swap to be able to go to work and back. For anyone contemplating a build, I recommend some deep reflection on what the car will be used for and what your expectations are. When I built the 389 for my '65 in 1981, with the Sig Erson Hi Flo cam, etc. I had planned on racing the car on the strip. I ended up street racing the car and then using it as a daily driver for years and years. Now, 40+ years later, I wish it had a more mild cam to give it better low-end street manners. Tastes change as one ages. At 20 it was all about big cams, steep gears, and manual everything. Now, I want a mild cam, lazy gears, and power everything.
Rant over, just some of what I've seen and dealt with.
Well said. It’s why i went with a mild “RA2” style build on my 68 rebuild. Dyno at 377hp. Sounds grumbly but i can take family out in it for a cruise. My only wish is that i had lowered the compression. It’sa Factory 10:1 which means i gotta mix AV gas or 110 Race with pump 93 non ethanol. The only parts that are non factory are for reliability and drivability (elec ignition, disc brakes, all new wiring harness and LED lighting). She’s reliable, still fast and turns heads WAY more than other hot new Vettes and Challengers and Ricers that would blow my doors off.

thanks for sharing that view that i completely agree with.
 

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Each to their own which is the way it's should be but maybe I'm not old enough yet, mines a hobby car, weekend cruiser, show car, occasionally a race car. I'm not going cross country with it or to work everyday, I want my car to scare the passenger and maybe me sometimes, be loud, get bad milage, look great with a kick ass stereo, turn heads, win trophies, have things on it no one else's does and fix things I broke or improve things that's half the fun of this hobby. It's not a numbers car and I'm never selling it so I don't care if I'm upside down on it....I'm having a blast with it ( except the broken bolt) and doing exactly what I intended to do with it, I didn't have any cars for 30 years so I have a lot of making up to do because I'm not getting any younger and before I know it they will be taking my license away for racing down a sidewalk with it. If I want a quiet cross country drive with good milage I'll jump in our 2017 Impala...now my rant is over also...and I need a cigarette :LOL:
Some one broke @Baaad65 , or it's cocktail night. That being said, I don't disagree with you here. For most of us these cars are a hobby, and nothing more. Many get limited use and sit for periods of time due to weather in our areas. The day I start worrying about fuel mileage and reliability for a 50+ year old car, is the day I trade it off and take up a hobby that makes more sense, like shuffle board or something. I had a "reliable" stock build 400 in mine before. I couldn't drive it if the temperature got much hotter than 80 outside. It ran hot and it was slow. Someone mentioned a Camry smoking these old cars. Mine was in the realm where my wife's CVT Honda Fit would have given it a run for it's money. When that reliable engine blew, I built up a high strung 461 using a Len Williams short block as it's base and have never looked back. The engine in there now should be pushing somewhere close to 500 hp, runs on 93 octane pump gas, and runs at 180 all day, even when the temp is in the mid nineties. I put 1300 miles on it this past summer and had zero issues doing it. I'll admit, I don't drive it that hard and never wind it close to red line. Is it bad on gas? Sure is, but once you start worrying about that sort of thing, the magic is gone. As for reliability, if/when the engine in there now expires, it'll get another ride on a flat bed home and I'll do it all over again.
 

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Same, I only had three years of auto shop experience and put my 428 together in dad's basement, biggest problem I ran into was getting a full dressed motor up the basement stairs! Had a machine shop work everything then bought the parts from him, I have no idea what any of the specs were on the motor now or the heads. Never degreed the cam in nothing because I didn't know any better also never blew it up, just bent a valve trying to power shift after a few Old Styles, it ran like a scalded dog...
man I liked the 80's 😉
Are we brothers? I did the same thing when I was 16 It was a real PITA to get it up the basement stairs fully 350 built. My dad brought the tow truck home from work he backed it up to the side door and we winched it up.
 

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Are we brothers? I did the same thing when I was 16 It was a real PITA to get it up the basement stairs fully 350 built. My dad brought the tow truck home from work he backed it up to the side door and we winched it up.
You're lucky, my dad and a friend helped me, step by step...probably why I'm going for another MRI today on my back and another round of cortisone injections from those magic moments 😬
 

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Cameo Ivory 1967
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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
You may have said this at some point in the past, but what's the game plan? Are you building a monster engine or a stock type build? I've tossed around the idea of rebuilding the 400 that came out of mine but I don't really need a second engine with no home. Trying to get rid of projects before I take on another.
Target goal is a 400 cui engine, as close to 400hp as possible.

The recipe Im intending to use is this:

If they were capable of hitting 370 stock, how much more can be gained with minor port work and modern parts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Well said. It’s why i went with a mild “RA2” style build on my 68 rebuild. Dyno at 377hp. Sounds grumbly but i can take family out in it for a cruise. My only wish is that i had lowered the compression. It’sa Factory 10:1 which means i gotta mix AV gas or 110 Race with pump 93 non ethanol. The only parts that are non factory are for reliability and drivability (elec ignition, disc brakes, all new wiring harness and LED lighting). She’s reliable, still fast and turns heads WAY more than other hot new Vettes and Challengers and Ricers that would blow my doors off.

thanks for sharing that view that i completely agree with.
Considering that I appear to be running the worst heads out there for octane (670), I seem to have much fewer issues with octane, than most of you. I suspect it has to do with being at sea level, on the east coast... as well as my roller cam.
 

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Another BIG SCORE last night. Got a set of trusted 6x-4 heads, for $200! They should give enough compression to make nice power, without going overboard. Hopefully they check out and I can rebuild them, too.
Outstanding! Are they complete heads?

Im trying to figure out a plan of attack on mine, and I am afraid that I am getting paralysis by analysis. Information overload.
 

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Another BIG SCORE last night. Got a set of trusted 6x-4 heads, for $200! They should give enough compression to make nice power, without going overboard. Hopefully they check out and I can rebuild them, too.
cool, shave them a little and deck the block. port them, port the stock intake. lighten the rotating assembly,choose the cam and away you go.im joking,this is going to be very a cool thread. cant wait to see what the end result will be.
 

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I thought at first you wanted a bigger badder motor for your car, now that you've explained it better it will be a cool and useful thread showing that the average person can rebuild their Pontiac in the garage and still make decent power without having to take out a second mortgage for a Butler or like shop. The Pontiac is so expensive to build and I found that out when a rod knock showed up in my 455 it came with, the shops around here were no help so then I started looking at done motors from Butler, Blue Monkey and a place in FL. OMG ! 15K for 500hp ! I thought I'll never be able to do that and the wife will divorce me if I try. So when I saw this Butler 461 for 8K (paid 7500) on ebay I couldn't get the down payment to him fast enough, it was the deal of the century for me. We'll all be watching and pulling for you at Amy's Pontiac Motor Shop (y)
 

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Cameo Ivory 1967
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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
cool, shave them a little and deck the block. port them, port the stock intake. lighten the rotating assembly,choose the cam and away you go.im joking,this is going to be very a cool thread. cant wait to see what the end result will be.
Hate to shave them if I dont HAVE to... would definitely add unnecessary cost, but I think they have 90cc chambers, as is, so not sure yet. I cant see 375 hp with those ccs, but I also cant find my ass, with both hands, so I have no idea why Im even mentioning it.
 
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