[JohnnyGTO67]

This may seem like a broken record, but would like people's opinions with my unique situation.

I am ready to install my engine to the frame. Currently there's not much in the way. I'm running a mini starter and a Trans Dapt oil relocation kit.

Here comes the big ask! Dougs Headers, they are going in! Many have suggested laying the headers on the frame and dropping the engine in. My plan is to attach the headers and drop the engine in--complete. Are there any advantages/disadvantages to doing it this way.

I've attached a pic of how the frame will be upon installation.

 

[GrandTO]

They did it that way on the assembly line for a reason. Should be easier than the way most of us install headers. (Loosen motor mounts, hoist or jack engine up, bust knuckles, heat pipes and swear). I believe that's a z-bar weldment on your frame. If so, getting the clutch linkage together will be much easier. You've already addressed the oil filter housing interference issue. With many headers including Doug's, you may need to clearance headers for the upper camber/caster a arm shaft bolts on driver and/or passenger side which will still be easier. The only drawback is that anyone helping you or within earshot won't be learning any new words. If your going to do it, that's the best way.

 

[armyadarkness]

This may seem like a broken record, but would like people's opinions with my unique situation.

I am ready to install my engine to the frame. Currently there's not much in the way. I'm running a mini starter and a Trans Dapt oil relocation kit.

Here comes the big ask! Dougs Headers, they are going in! Many have suggested laying the headers on the frame and dropping the engine in. My plan is to attach the headers and drop the engine in--complete. Are there any advantages/disadvantages to doing it this way.

I've attached a pic of how the frame will be upon installation.

I was never successful, trying to install the engine with headers on it, in a GTO

 

[JohnnyGTO67]

They did it that way on the assembly line for a reason. Should be easier than the way most of us install headers. (Loosen motor mounts, hoist or jack engine up, bust knuckles, heat pipes and swear). I believe that's a z-bar weldment on your frame. If so, getting the clutch linkage together will be much easier. You've already addressed the oil filter housing interference issue. With many headers including Doug's, you may need to clearance headers for the upper camber/caster a arm shaft bolts on driver and/or passenger side which will still be easier. The only drawback is that anyone helping you or within earshot won't be learning any new words. If your going to do it, that's the best way.

My garage is soundproofed. Only poor souls that will be hearing my obscenities are my dear old dogs!

I was never successful, trying to install the engine with headers on it, in a GTO

@armyadarkness, I was awaiting your response as we have similar builds.

When you attempted the install, was your frame setup similar to mine? When I get around to it tonight I'll go through a dry run and see if the headers hit frame/suspension.

There's a video

.

FMG had to make some dents on the tubes for fitment, but every car is different so wish me luck

 

[armyadarkness]

Ive owned two 67's and a 66, and none would allow the engine to be installed with headers. On one 67, the front end was off, and we still couldnt do it. Not sure how your setup is... and, that was using Cyclones... Now I use Dougs, but Ive not heard that they're any easier

 

[armyadarkness]

I cant watch that video now, but I'll try later.

 

[JohnnyGTO67]

Ive owned two 67's and a 66, and none would allow the engine to be installed with headers. On one 67, the front end was off, and we still couldnt do it. Not sure how your setup is... and, that was using Cyclones... Now I use Dougs, but Ive not heard that they're any easier

Attached is a picture of how I intend to drop in the engine/headers

 

[Scott06]

Attached is a picture of how I intend to drop in the engine/headers

Are you just dropping it on the bare frame? that should work if you remove the crossmember of course depends on where the collector to crossmember fit lands

 

[armyadarkness]

Yeah, with no body on it, should be easy.

 

[GrandTO]

My garage is soundproofed. Only poor souls that will be hearing my obscenities are my dear old dogs!

@armyadarkness, I was awaiting your response as we have similar builds.

When you attempted the install, was your frame setup similar to mine? When I get around to it tonight I'll go through a dry run and see if the headers hit frame/suspension.

There's a video

.

FMG had to make some dents on the tubes for fitment, but every car is different so wish me luck

Good Vid. I never had those kind of clearance issues on any 67 install. Except the brake block that is common and the control arms /a frame tops. Solved with torch, prybar and hammer. Possibly slightly tighter on 68-72 due to shorter W.B. I also noticed you have after market tubular control arms. They appear to have a good 1/2 to 1" additional clearance.( you may not have an A arm issue at all do to this) Assuming these are 1 & 3/4" tube headers, when you get them mounted on the engine, you will notice the tubes & collectors taper down low slightly inside the cylinder head on pass side and slightly outside width of cylinder head on D side to allow more clearance for starter & clutch actuation assembly.
If You're mounting engine with headers with some sort of cherry picker, you may need to tilt the motor and trans assembly down in the rear. You may also have to tilt D - side of engine down due to header protruding out slightly wider than head on that side. But you can also move trans crossmember for more room if needed. Can't see how this wouldn't be the easiest way to do it.
The real beauty of this is if we're wrong, you simply take the headers off, drop the engine in and do it the typical hard way from underneath on the ground or if you have a hoist, strap the front frame rails down so when you lift the engine a few inches to clear, the car doesn't slide off the hoist. I should also say that after many years of header installs and dyno tests with headers compared to RA manifolds, I am more a proponent of the RA manifolds for over all sealing and performance on a mild build that is. Either way, If you're choosing headers on a high perf build or just simply cool factor, hats off to you.

 

[geeteeohguy]

Yeah, with no body on it, should be easy.

I agree. With no body and a bare frame, you can likely do it standing on your head.

 

[JohnnyGTO67]

Good Vid. I never had those kind of clearance issues on any 67 install. Except the brake block that is common and the control arms /a frame tops. Solved with torch, prybar and hammer. Possibly slightly tighter on 68-72 due to shorter W.B. I also noticed you have after market tubular control arms. They appear to have a good 1/2 to 1" additional clearance.( you may not have an A arm issue at all do to this) Assuming these are 1 & 3/4" tube headers, when you get them mounted on the engine, you will notice the tubes & collectors taper down low slightly inside the cylinder head on pass side and slightly outside width of cylinder head on D side to allow more clearance for starter & clutch actuation assembly.
If You're mounting engine with headers with some sort of cherry picker, you may need to tilt the motor and trans assembly down in the rear. You may also have to tilt D - side of engine down due to header protruding out slightly wider than head on that side. But you can also move trans crossmember for more room if needed. Can't see how this wouldn't be the easiest way to do it.
The real beauty of this is if we're wrong, you simply take the headers off, drop the engine in and do it the typical hard way from underneath on the ground or if you have a hoist, strap the front frame rails down so when you lift the engine a few inches to clear, the car doesn't slide off the hoist. I should also say that after many years of header installs and dyno tests with headers compared to RA manifolds, I am more a proponent of the RA manifolds for over all sealing and performance on a mild build that is. Either way, If you're choosing headers on a high perf build or just simply cool factor, hats off to you.

Thank you for the insight. I'll take off the Trans x-member for good measure.

I have to ask these questions because I'm operating on limited time every night. Knowing before hand which direction to take makes the process that much more efficient.I've got a 6 week old baby that is seriously slowing down my resto.😉

Dougs Dport headers are the lucky ladies.

 

[GrandTO]

Thank you for the insight. I'll take off the Trans x-member for good measure.

I have to ask these questions because I'm operating on limited time every night. Knowing before hand which direction to take makes the process that much more efficient.I've got a 6 week old baby that is seriously slowing down my resto.😉

Dougs Dport headers are the lucky ladies.

Congratulations!

 

[67ventwindow]

Thank you for the insight. I'll take off the Trans x-member for good measure.

I have to ask these questions because I'm operating on limited time every night. Knowing before hand which direction to take makes the process that much more efficient.I've got a 6 week old baby that is seriously slowing down my resto.😉

Dougs Dport headers are the lucky ladies.

It gets better, my twins liked my car better than the pack and play. Block the wheels and pull the battery cable. my girls knew how to shift before they could walk.

 

[JohnnyGTO67]

Let the hurt begin! More to follow

 

[PontiacJim]

Let the hurt begin! More to follow

And you know about this, right?

Warning

NEVER break in a new or rebuilt engine with ceramic coated headers. Excessive heat will damage the coating and void the warranty.

When you break in a new camshaft, lifters, and piston rings, excessive heat is produced. Ignition Timing and carburetor jetting can also cause the engine to run hot.

Do not install your ceramic coated headers until after the engine is broken-in and properly tuned. We recommend you use an old set of headers or manifolds for engine break-in.

Curing Coated Headers

Most ceramic coated headers will come partially cured. The following break-in procedure will help to fully cure the coating. The same procedure will also help freshly painted headers.

Procedure

1. Install the headers according to the manufacturer’s instructions.
2. Make sure the parking break is set and the vehicle is in neutral.
3. Start the engine.Run it up to 1,500-2,000 rpm.
4. When the engine reaches operating temperature, continue to run between 1,000-2,500 rpm for about 5 minutes.
5. Turn the engine off and let it cool down.
6. Repeat steps 3-6.
7. Take the car for an easy drive (30-45 minutes).
8. Turn the engine off and let it cool down.
9. Repeat steps 3-5 again.

Why is this important?

Fully curing your header coating will help it last longer.

No coating is 100% guaranteed forever. All coatings will fade and eventually allow corrosion to form. How long the coating lasts depends on many factors. Individual results may vary.

 

[Sick467]

Have you got a load leveler on that cherry picker? I can't say for sure, but it would help to avoid scratching things up. You've got a beautiful thing going on there (!) and have a good chance of planting that engine, with the headers, without a body shell in the way. There's no way I know of, with the body shell on the frame even with no front clip to place an engine AND headers in place, bolted up. Watch the driver's side rear A-arm bolt. Mine had to be cut short to clear Hooker headers..bacxk in the day.

 

[JohnnyGTO67]

@PontiacJim thank.you for your concern. Engine was broken in by the builder.

Round 1 went to the headers tonight. Had them bolted on and it sure as well wasn't going to fit.

It appears my passenger side lower control arm housing was getting in the way. I worry about compromising the integrity of the housing. How much has anyone cut off?

 

[GrandTO]

Unless they have changed alot since 2018, you shouldn't have to nor would I cut anything. Looking at your #6 down tube, it looks identical to mine. Is it the #6 or number 8 downtube giving you trouble? Can't see the #8. Are you moving the hoist as far into the engine bay as possible then pulling back towards front of chassis while lowering?
Worst case, take the pass. Side header off, get motor into place and come up from bottom. You may have to remove filter housing if it's still there. Do you have the load leveler that Sick467 mentioned?

 

[JohnnyGTO67]

Have you got a load leveler on that cherry picker? I can't say for sure, but it would help to avoid scratching things up. You've got a beautiful thing going on there (!) and have a good chance of planting that engine, with the headers, without a body shell in the way. There's no way I know of, with the body shell on the frame even with no front clip to place an engine AND headers in place, bolted up. Watch the driver's side rear A-arm bolt. Mine had to be cut short to clear Hooker headers..bacxk in the day.

I do not have a load leveler--nor do I know what that is. I tried to drop in with everything bolted up, but immediately was met with resistance from the rear lower control arm housings.

I removed passenger side header, but may not have the lift oriented correctly(intake lift plate on middle hole). The passenger control arm housing is really getting in the way.