[GrandTO]

They did it that way on the assembly line for a reason. Should be easier than the way most of us install headers. (Loosen motor mounts, hoist or jack engine up, bust knuckles, heat pipes and swear). I believe that's a z-bar weldment on your frame. If so, getting the clutch linkage together will be much easier. You've already addressed the oil filter housing interference issue. With many headers including Doug's, you may need to clearance headers for the upper camber/caster a arm shaft bolts on driver and/or passenger side which will still be easier. The only drawback is that anyone helping you or within earshot won't be learning any new words. If your going to do it, that's the best way.

 

[GrandTO]

My garage is soundproofed. Only poor souls that will be hearing my obscenities are my dear old dogs!

@armyadarkness, I was awaiting your response as we have similar builds.

When you attempted the install, was your frame setup similar to mine? When I get around to it tonight I'll go through a dry run and see if the headers hit frame/suspension.

There's a video

.

FMG had to make some dents on the tubes for fitment, but every car is different so wish me luck

Good Vid. I never had those kind of clearance issues on any 67 install. Except the brake block that is common and the control arms /a frame tops. Solved with torch, prybar and hammer. Possibly slightly tighter on 68-72 due to shorter W.B. I also noticed you have after market tubular control arms. They appear to have a good 1/2 to 1" additional clearance.( you may not have an A arm issue at all do to this) Assuming these are 1 & 3/4" tube headers, when you get them mounted on the engine, you will notice the tubes & collectors taper down low slightly inside the cylinder head on pass side and slightly outside width of cylinder head on D side to allow more clearance for starter & clutch actuation assembly.
If You're mounting engine with headers with some sort of cherry picker, you may need to tilt the motor and trans assembly down in the rear. You may also have to tilt D - side of engine down due to header protruding out slightly wider than head on that side. But you can also move trans crossmember for more room if needed. Can't see how this wouldn't be the easiest way to do it.
The real beauty of this is if we're wrong, you simply take the headers off, drop the engine in and do it the typical hard way from underneath on the ground or if you have a hoist, strap the front frame rails down so when you lift the engine a few inches to clear, the car doesn't slide off the hoist. I should also say that after many years of header installs and dyno tests with headers compared to RA manifolds, I am more a proponent of the RA manifolds for over all sealing and performance on a mild build that is. Either way, If you're choosing headers on a high perf build or just simply cool factor, hats off to you.

 

[GrandTO]

Thank you for the insight. I'll take off the Trans x-member for good measure.

I have to ask these questions because I'm operating on limited time every night. Knowing before hand which direction to take makes the process that much more efficient.I've got a 6 week old baby that is seriously slowing down my resto.😉

Dougs Dport headers are the lucky ladies.

Congratulations!

 

[GrandTO]

Unless they have changed alot since 2018, you shouldn't have to nor would I cut anything. Looking at your #6 down tube, it looks identical to mine. Is it the #6 or number 8 downtube giving you trouble? Can't see the #8. Are you moving the hoist as far into the engine bay as possible then pulling back towards front of chassis while lowering?
Worst case, take the pass. Side header off, get motor into place and come up from bottom. You may have to remove filter housing if it's still there. Do you have the load leveler that Sick467 mentioned?

 

[GrandTO]

I'm catching resistance from the tube with my finger on. Again I may just not have the lift oriented correctly...I have it relatively level. My first pass I lowered the lift to the rear of the mounts and pull the engine forward with zero luck.

Maybe I missed something but what is the importance of keeping the headers on during the motor install? I was thinking the same things are going to get in the way even with the front clip off right? Since it will be easy to bolt them on with the clip off I would just bring them up from the bottom. This is why I didn't even consider headers...my motor fell in with manifolds and the clip on and doing it all by my lonesome....just thinking out loud as I was following the thread.

This is a load leveler. Under the circumstances, I would take the minor battle loss and win the war. Take the headers off and you can easily get the motor mounted and install the headers from bottom. Way easier with no bod Like Baad65 is suggesting and you can move forward.

 

[GrandTO]

No cutting of anything unlike the video. Love those valve covers & the headers look awesome.
Looks like a piece of fine jewelry!
Good job 👍

 

[GrandTO]

I have. Not sure your motor mounts are up to snuff. Do you have a clearance issue with crossmember to oil pan clearance?

1) At least two options come to mind. You can shim the mounts as 67 ragtop suggested. He has 326 but shouldn't make a difference. You can dent the tube allowing extra clearance for the wrap if you intend to go that route.
2) My brake lines are in the exact position as yours. One of the benefits of ceramic coating is heat transfer. However, it's not enough for the purposes of this conversation. A good wrap would definitely stop enough heat transfer.
3) I did not have to modify rag joint on mine. Hard to tell from your photo. It looks like you have over 1/2"+ clearance. That would be fine. a straight down photo would help. Shimming the motor mounts or better would solve two issues.

 

[GrandTO]

@armyadarkness @GrandTO . Posted a video of header hitting control arm.

The engine mounts are new, albeit Autozone factory. I guess now is the time to buy once cry once--is there a con to have solid engine mounts? I feel like they would put additional strain on the frame.

Shimmming the frame mounts is what you are referring too, yes?

Yes. Frame mounts. Below are the Butler Performance 3/16" spacers.

IME, there has been some debate about this as everyone seems to be right depending on what they are trying to accomplish: The pro to the solid mounts is less movement and better power/torque transfer / The con to the solid motor mount is less movement and little isolation. If the goal is to eliminate engine movement and you don't mind some vibration, they're great. Otherwise steel reinforced rubber is similar to what Pontiac used originally. A polyurethane/steel mount is said to be a good compromise as it offers some vibration isolation along with less movement. Butler Performance recommends wrapping your headers if you wish to go the poly route. Really depends on what your after. Your engine looks pretty stock on the outside. I realize that it could be stealth instead of stock. Not sure what you intend to do with the car other than enjoy it of course!
I would ask Butler what their thoughts are on the rubber/steel/poly pros and cons for the mounts as well. I'm sure they'll have some really good expertise in that area.

Before you buy anything though, now would also be a good time to mock everything up that has a chance of interfering with headers and vice versa. Lift your engine 'til it clears the items in question move lines, check clearances, and factor in wrap if needed etc.

Enjoy the Green Beer!

 

[GrandTO]

I would also mock up cross member, bell housing and trans to determine angle engine will be sitting once installed so you're not going back and forth redoing items unnecessarily.

 

[GrandTO]

I remember seeing this same information somewhere...now where could that have been...oh ya way back in post #47 🤣

This was actually mentioned back in post #39. The purpose of the mock up is to give you some clear guidance on the true angle of you engine and how the driveline to engine setup may or may not interfere with brake lines and vice versa (before you start ordering parts and wasting time and money.) Doubt you'll have pinion angle issues but, the purpose of the procedure is to know. Some of these could be non-issues and I wouldn't want to see you chasing your tail. You have the perfect opportunity to put your GOAT together right with nothing in the way. It could wind up that you just need to do controlled denting on some of your header tubes and be done. They're so beautiful, it almost seems like sacrilege but, that's what most a lot of us with headers have to do not to mention, another reason to mock it all up. Take your time, step by step and you'll have good results with the power team and you can move on to the next. There are some of us here that envy your position. Glad to see the solid mounts are not really a consideration especially given the probable power & torque output of your build.

 

[GrandTO]

All information is helpful. I'll have to wait until Monday to speak with Butler/Ames.

I realized my last video displaying my concern was 9 seconds.

Below I attached a longer version for all to see for theirs an mine future mods.

If even needed, one other option may be to safely use a small spreader or the like below or even a brake piston spreader with rubber shims to prevent marring can work to nudge the pipes a 1/4" or so.

 

[GrandTO]

 

[GrandTO]

Good call, I missed that one 😉 After thinking about the pinion angle post I thought of the info I just read in the Hook and Launch book where they say the trans angle has nothing to do with pinion angle but that also was assuming you have adjustable control arms. Otherwise if you don't I guess you have a to do it with transmission crossmember spacers correct?

Correct. Or little CM tweaks or different T mounts. I don't have that book. Sounds like they focus on 1320' & 660'. Hopefully and as far as this thread is concerned, no-one suggest nor is there any need to suggest changing pinion angle except under load of course. I would believe everyone on the thread knows that the geometry is going to change as he loads the chassis suspension with body and other components. I only mentioned Pinion angle because I thought someone was eluding to that as an issue rather than part of the calculation. We don't really know if something has been tweaked along the way. I really don't think so. But, can't rule that out 'til we know. I could be wrong about seeing that. However, Pinion, transmission output shaft and drive shaft angle are all used to determine acceptable driveline geometry. So they definitely do have something to do with each other in relationship. I mentioned this when I sensed things started to go a little off course. Once he mocks everything up, Johnny can get a good handle on any real adjustments he may need to make to the static items as well as the dynamic items. Logical progression.