[JohnnyGTO67]

Unless they have changed alot since 2018, you shouldn't have to nor would I cut anything. Looking at your #6 down tube, it looks identical to mine. Is it the #6 or number 8 downtube giving you trouble? Can't see the #8. Are you moving the hoist as far into the engine bay as possible then pulling back towards front of chassis while lowering?
Worst case, take the pass. Side header off, get motor into place and come up from bottom. You may have to remove filter housing if it's still there. Do you have the load leveler that Sick467 mentioned?

I'm catching resistance from the tube with my finger on. Again I may just not have the lift oriented correctly...I have it relatively level. My first pass I lowered the lift to the rear of the mounts and pull the engine forward with zero luck.

 

[Baaad65]

Maybe I missed something but what is the importance of keeping the headers on during the motor install? I was thinking the same things are going to get in the way even with the front clip off right? Since it will be easy to bolt them on with the clip off I would just bring them up from the bottom. This is why I didn't even consider headers...my motor fell in with manifolds and the clip on and doing it all by my lonesome....just thinking out loud as I was following the thread.

 

[GrandTO]

I'm catching resistance from the tube with my finger on. Again I may just not have the lift oriented correctly...I have it relatively level. My first pass I lowered the lift to the rear of the mounts and pull the engine forward with zero luck.

Maybe I missed something but what is the importance of keeping the headers on during the motor install? I was thinking the same things are going to get in the way even with the front clip off right? Since it will be easy to bolt them on with the clip off I would just bring them up from the bottom. This is why I didn't even consider headers...my motor fell in with manifolds and the clip on and doing it all by my lonesome....just thinking out loud as I was following the thread.

This is a load leveler. Under the circumstances, I would take the minor battle loss and win the war. Take the headers off and you can easily get the motor mounted and install the headers from bottom. Way easier with no bod Like Baad65 is suggesting and you can move forward.

 

[JohnnyGTO67]

I'm catching resistance from the tube with my finger on. Again I may just not have the lift oriented correctly...I have it relatively level. My first pass I lowered the lift to the rear of the mounts and pull the engine forward with zero luck.

I do not have a load leveler--nor do I know what that is. I tried to drop in with everything bolted up, but immediately was met with resistance from the rear lower control arm housings.

I removed passenger side header, but may not have the lift oriented correctly(intake lift plate on middle hole). The passenger control arm housing is really getting in the way.

Maybe I missed something but what is the importance of keeping the headers on during the motor install? I was thinking the same things are going to get in the way even with the front clip off right? Since it will be easy to bolt them on with the clip off I would just bring them up from the bottom. This is why I didn't even consider headers...my motor fell in with manifolds and the clip on and doing it all by my lonesome....just thinking out loud as I was following the thread.

Maybe I missed something but what is the importance of keeping the headers on during the motor install? I was thinking the same things are going to get in the way even with the front clip off right? Since it will be easy to bolt them on with the clip off I would just bring them up from the bottom. This is why I didn't even consider headers...my motor fell in with manifolds and the clip on and doing it all by my lonesome....just thinking out loud as I was following the thread.

Why do you have to come in here making sense HAHA. You guys, I tell you. Fridge is open.

 

[JohnnyGTO67]

Well gentlemen, @Baaad65 , gave me some post nut clarity. I pulled some gymnastics, but these SOBs are in. I removed the oil filter housing, starter and had to jack the drivers side up, but they are in. Spent 4 hrs prepping my garage so that I could absolutely destroy it.

More to follow! Body should be on in 2 weeks.

 

[Baaad65]

They look really nice, just had to repaint my manifolds in the car with a small brush, for some reason they started to rust after four seasons and I followed the KBS directions to a T. If I ever have them off I'm going to get them coated professionally.

 

[GrandTO]

No cutting of anything unlike the video. Love those valve covers & the headers look awesome.
Looks like a piece of fine jewelry!
Good job 👍

 

[JohnnyGTO67]

No cutting of anything unlike the video. Love those valve covers & the headers look awesome.
Looks like a piece of fine jewelry!
Good job 👍

Butler performance provided both.

 

[67 ragtop]

I do not have a load leveler--nor do I know what that is. I tried to drop in with everything bolted up, but immediately was met with resistance from the rear lower control arm housings.

I removed passenger side header, but may not have the lift oriented correctly(intake lift plate on middle hole). The passenger control arm housing is really getting in the way.

Not sure if anyone suggested this but I had to shim up the motor up a half inch for the clearance
needed and all went well on mine. I have a 67 67 lemans with a 326 hope this helps

 

[JohnnyGTO67]

Well Gentleman--now that the euphoria has worn off its time to examine future issues. I've got alot to do and the positioning of peripheral sub-systems may interfere with my header placement.

The three pictures I've attached are cause for concern.

1. The first shows how close the driverside header is to the rear lower control arm housing. When I "flex" the engine on stock mounts the header tube does contact. Now this isn't a torque monster, but has anyone had issues hitting?
2. The brake lines are awfully close to the header tube. Has anyone rerouted or wrapped their headers to avoid fluid boil?
3. Based on this picture, should I modify my rag joint ro accept the steering column?

I ask these questions because I have a week before the body is dropped which will complicate mods.

Hopefully this thread helps future restos.

 

[armyadarkness]

Maybe this was already asked, but are your motor mounts new?

Can you install spacers under them?

My Dougs needed to be hit with a hammer, to clear the rag joint.

 

[GrandTO]

I have. Not sure your motor mounts are up to snuff. Do you have a clearance issue with crossmember to oil pan clearance?

1) At least two options come to mind. You can shim the mounts as 67 ragtop suggested. He has 326 but shouldn't make a difference. You can dent the tube allowing extra clearance for the wrap if you intend to go that route.
2) My brake lines are in the exact position as yours. One of the benefits of ceramic coating is heat transfer. However, it's not enough for the purposes of this conversation. A good wrap would definitely stop enough heat transfer.
3) I did not have to modify rag joint on mine. Hard to tell from your photo. It looks like you have over 1/2"+ clearance. That would be fine. a straight down photo would help. Shimming the motor mounts or better would solve two issues.

 

[JohnnyGTO67]

@armyadarkness @GrandTO . Posted a video of header hitting control arm.

The engine mounts are new, albeit Autozone factory. I guess now is the time to buy once cry once--is there a con to have solid engine mounts? I feel like they would put additional strain on the frame.

Shimmming the frame mounts is what you are referring too, yes?

 

[Baaad65]

I wouldn't do solids because of the vibrations transmitted into the car, I just installed Torque Lock mounts from Ames off of eBay. I also did motor mount spacers because my drag link was rubbing the oil pan, they don't hurt anything as they're a 1/4" I think, just check your pinion angle after. But do them now trust me, you think you used bad words installing the headers. I did them with the motor in and it aged me 3 yrs. and I actually had to super glue a nut to my finger to hold it in place 😳

 

[armyadarkness]

i CANT SEE WHAT YOU'RE DEALING WITH, BUT if extra height will solve it, then you can buy and install spacers under the frame mounts. Sorry for the caps lock

 

[armyadarkness]

I actually had to super glue a nut to my finger to hold it in place

Once I super glued my nuts to my mother in laws picture.

 

[JohnnyGTO67]

Once I super glued my nuts to my mother in laws picture.

When I get done St Pats festivities I'll take a clearer video FYSA

 

[GrandTO]

@armyadarkness @GrandTO . Posted a video of header hitting control arm.

The engine mounts are new, albeit Autozone factory. I guess now is the time to buy once cry once--is there a con to have solid engine mounts? I feel like they would put additional strain on the frame.

Shimmming the frame mounts is what you are referring too, yes?

Yes. Frame mounts. Below are the Butler Performance 3/16" spacers.

IME, there has been some debate about this as everyone seems to be right depending on what they are trying to accomplish: The pro to the solid mounts is less movement and better power/torque transfer / The con to the solid motor mount is less movement and little isolation. If the goal is to eliminate engine movement and you don't mind some vibration, they're great. Otherwise steel reinforced rubber is similar to what Pontiac used originally. A polyurethane/steel mount is said to be a good compromise as it offers some vibration isolation along with less movement. Butler Performance recommends wrapping your headers if you wish to go the poly route. Really depends on what your after. Your engine looks pretty stock on the outside. I realize that it could be stealth instead of stock. Not sure what you intend to do with the car other than enjoy it of course!
I would ask Butler what their thoughts are on the rubber/steel/poly pros and cons for the mounts as well. I'm sure they'll have some really good expertise in that area.

Before you buy anything though, now would also be a good time to mock everything up that has a chance of interfering with headers and vice versa. Lift your engine 'til it clears the items in question move lines, check clearances, and factor in wrap if needed etc.

Enjoy the Green Beer!

 

[GrandTO]

I would also mock up cross member, bell housing and trans to determine angle engine will be sitting once installed so you're not going back and forth redoing items unnecessarily.

 

[PontiacJim]

I have. Not sure your motor mounts are up to snuff. Do you have a clearance issue with crossmember to oil pan clearance?

1) At least two options come to mind. You can shim the mounts as 67 ragtop suggested. He has 326 but shouldn't make a difference. You can dent the tube allowing extra clearance for the wrap if you intend to go that route.
2) My brake lines are in the exact position as yours. One of the benefits of ceramic coating is heat transfer. However, it's not enough for the purposes of this conversation. A good wrap would definitely stop enough heat transfer.
3) I did not have to modify rag joint on mine. Hard to tell from your photo. It looks like you have over 1/2"+ clearance. That would be fine. a straight down photo would help. Shimming the motor mounts or better would solve two issues.

Do not use solid motor mounts. This puts a lot of strain on the block as the torque twists the casting. This in turn puts more pressure internally at the main caps near the mounts. This is one of the causes for a split block on high HP engines. The SD 455 engines had a beefed up oil pan rail just because of this issue.

The poly mounts can be a little stiff and I think I would go with the Ames engine mounts as they are said to be close to factory. Some mounts will cause the engine to sit lower because they are aftermarket. You might try the Ames mounts first before going with shims -which can be done.

As GrandTO mentioned, your driveline angle may be changed since true factory type engine/trans mounts are not available and aftermarket is what we mostly use. It may be easier to check once the engine/trans is in the car and driveshaft installed - you then measure driveshaft/pinion angles and adjust from there IF needed.

The brake line appears a little close to me and I would be concerned the header heat could have an affect on the brake fluid. You might want to use a short piece of thermal sleeve heat wrap used on spark plug wires over the brake line. You will have to slice the sleeve and wrap it and then use stainless steel zip ties.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/spark-plug-wire-thermal-sleeves/quantity/sold-individually?N=maximum-ambient-temperature-degrees-f%3a1-800-degrees-f

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