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Future Camaro Update:
Australia's GM Holden May Be Taking the Lead Toward Production

Date posted: 04-20-2006


Will the Chevrolet Camaro concept from the Detroit auto show
(pictured) turn into a GM Holden product? There is reportedly a task force Down Under
working on the production model.


CANBERRA, Australia — A task force based at GM Holden — set up shortly after the debut of the Chevrolet Camaro concept at the North American International Auto Show in January — is reportedly working on the production version of the car, according to the Telegraph newspaper here.

"The only thing I can say on the record is that our new rear-wheel-drive (Zeta) architecture is the main candidate for the future American rear-wheel-drive products, including the Camaro concept," said GM Holden Chairman Denny Mooney in the report. "We have a significant number of engineering and design resources…working on the project."

The newspaper said Mooney was careful to avoid any confirmation of a Camaro car project and also declined to discuss whether the Camaro project would affect the future of a new Holden Monaro.

What this means to you: Chevy's upcoming muscle car may have roots Down Under.
 

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Just For You, Groucho

Just because it's Monday, and I feel like stirring the pot:

1. Know why I like my GTO so much? The Pontiac badges. That red dart is absolutely the coolest. I might even buy more and plaster 'em everywhere.

2. This Camaro (and now I'm being serious) is undoubtedly the most beautiful of the recent round of revivalist concepts we've seen--full of Camaro heritage, yet forward-looking at the same time. A masterpiece of brute strength and shapely grace combined into a perfect whole. Styling by Disney? Well, all I can say is, "Long live the Imagineers!"

3. The interior is awesome. I especially love the ancillary gauge cluster in the center console. Cars of the '60s (vintage Vettes, original GTOs, muscle cars, etc.) had some truly exciting interiors that make today's interiors look like black plastic mausoleums. We could do with more brightwork and color. And Groucho, if Wal-Mart really had developed the Camaro interior, it'd make you hungry for Chinese every time you saw it.
 

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GM Kid said:
Drink deep the Kool Aid.

1. I dunno what this has to do with GM's funniest division, but I'll bite. The only "excitement" to come with the Red Wedgies over last 30 years is the brakes going out in a Hertz Grand Am.

2. Wrong division of Disney. I work with many ex-Imagineers. None of them would be seen anywhere near this hammered abortion. The sheetmetal of the Neo-Camaro is a hideous affront that seems crafted by the same crew who brought us the annoying crab dude in The Littlest Mermaid.

3. You're right. It looks more like the inside of one of Saddam Hussaein's palaces, only in poorer taste and with less restraint. Where's the chandelier?

A suggestion to GM- when pricing this car out, put it in terms that the most likely Camaro buyer can most clearly relate to. Instead of using dollars, how about using trailer park lot space, lost meth lab supplies, and food stamps as a metric?
 

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Groucho, you're crackin' me up.

Hey, in honor of yesterday's "Day Without an Immigrant," did you leave your Holden at home? I drove my Pontiac.

Don't know about you, but I'm willing to agree to disagree here. My "GM Kid" handle means I'm the son of a retired GM engineer, so I grew up all rah-rah about all the GM badges. I still feel that way. I root for the home team, celebrating their victories and shaking my head over their failures, but always wishing them well. So it looks like our points of view are just going to be fundamentally different.

What do we have in common? We're Car Guys. We also happen to love our current rides, even if we refer to them by different names. Membership in the Car Guy fraternity (which most certainly can include women) is what allows Mustang and GTO owners to celebrate their common love of horsepower and torque, regardless of the flavor in which it's delivered. It's our common denominator. I had a chat yesterday with a co-worker who just acquired an '00 BMW M5, and I was genuinely excited for him. He happens to love my car, too.

Okay, so let's all sing Kumbiya and enjoy our cars. No group hug necessary.
 

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Here's what I don't get.

Why does my well-founded dislike of certain GM brands and certain GM designs constitute a bash on all GM products?

Hellloooo....

The company I work for does advanced R&D work for GM. I have a vested interest in them doing well.

I obviously own and happen to be extremely happy with a car that was originally designed, engineered, built, and marketed by Holden for the Australian market. Holden has been a GM subsidiary since 1926-- the same year as the first P-P-Pontiac, BTW. I restate this to again point out that P-P-Pontiac marketers had almost no input into the design or production of our cars. I find that GM North America arbitrarily slapping a Red Wedgie on the Monaro cheapens the car and instantly diminishes its street credibility as a serious GT. I realize that this is a tough concept for those brought up in the Rust Belt to grasp, but in many other areas of the country P-P-Pontiac has become synonymous with poor design, over-the-top boy-racer styling (aka American Rice), poor quality, and usually questionable performance. I'm not going to name names, but I know for a fact that a highly placed GM official has admitted as much, saying that their target demographic is "young, white underachievers." GM NA has done a horrible job in brand management and IMHO should be dropped along with the irrelevant Buick.

I have repeatedly stated that there are GM products which I see as excellent vehicles-- the Cadillac V series and C5 and especially C6 Corvettes as examples. The Saturn Sky and its less-attractive older sibling, the Solstice, are promising vehicles indeed.

Seeing that GM NA otherwise relies heavily on FWD and trucks, however, that's about it.

However, I find the design of this new Camaro repulsive, funny, and completely lacking in imagination. It's just another embarrassing "me-too" stab at retro, just like the incredibly silly-looking HHR. That said, I do take heart in the fact that GMNA has chosen to select a modern IRS rear suspension (unlike Ford's dinoride counterpart), but other than that I see nothing in this car that appeals to me, a hardcore performance (meaning speed and poise in straight line and curves) car guy.
 

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Groucho said:
I obviously own and happen to be extremely happy with a car that was originally designed, engineered, built, and marketed by Holden for the Australian market. Holden has been a GM subsidiary since 1926-- the same year as the first P-P-Pontiac, BTW. I restate this to again point out that P-P-Pontiac marketers had almost no input into the design or production of our cars. I find that GM North America arbitrarily slapping a Red Wedgie on the Monaro cheapens the car and instantly diminishes its street credibility as a serious GT.

Well, I'm just tickled that Red Wedgie was nice enough to sell me my GTO, so I didn't have to plan a move to Australia so I could get one in its original form.
...and I like its looks. Have no desire in trying to make it look like a Holden.
 

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ModBoss2 said:
Well, I'm just tickled that Red Wedgie was nice enough to sell me my GTO, so I didn't have to plan a move to Australia so I could get one in its original form.
..not to mention, right-hand drive would make passing a bitch. :D

ModBoss2 said:
...and I like its looks. Have no desire in trying to make it look like a Holden.

Then don't.

Shrug.
 

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Oddly, Grouch, I think we pretty much agree with one another. We just don't know it yet.

FYI: I grew up in the Sun Belt, not the Rust Belt. My family's in Arizona because my dad spent most of his career at the GM Desert Proving Ground.

I agree that when it comes to recent Pontiac styling, there's a not lot to like. Thank goodness Bob Lutz felt the same and took an ax to the Aztek, body cladding and cartoonish styling. When the '93 F-bodies bowed and I was choosing between them, the Camaro got the nod over the Firebird because I thought the 'Bird's styling was just plain over the top.

I also agree that the mullet-wearing, My-Name-Is-Earl crowd gave the F-bodies a bad name (particularly during the IROC-Z era). Smokey and the Bandit and Knight Rider didn't help, either. The "Cheese Era" for these cars lasted far too long, eventually overshadowing their foundational Trans-Am years when guys like Mark Donohue and Roger Penske gave them glory. A shame.

Cars--and brands--can emerge from such shame, though. The Corvette has successfully shed its image as a poseur's chick-magnet, and Cadillac is making great strides toward once again becoming the Standard of the World. Thank goodness the Corvette isn't defined by the horsepower-deficient '76 model year, nor Cadillac by the Cimarron.

I guess I look at my GM fan-dom the way I look at my love for the Arizona State Sun Devils football team: There was a Golden Era when Frank Kush was coach and the Devils were a scrappy, up-and-coming team that routinely took down the national powerhouses, going so far as to beat Nebraska in the '75 Fiesta Bowl. Then there were some horrible, awful, lamentable years when we hung our heads in ignominy. But I stayed a fan throughout all of that, and I still am. For me, the "stigma" of the bad years is overwhelmed by the program's overall success.

Call it selective memory if you will, but I do the same with Pontiac and Chevrolet. I mourn their failures and boneheaded market moves, but I forgive those gaffes and focus instead on their successes.
 

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Groucho said:
..not to mention, right-hand drive would make passing a bitch. :D
Not if I had to make that move to Australia...but thanks to Pontiac, I can stay right c'here.:eek:




Groucho said:
Then don't
..Shrug.

Yeah, if I had a problem with the looks of the Pontiac when I bought it, I never would have taken ownership of it. I probably would have gotten a Mustang GT instead. Good thing that Pontiac hasn't gone belly-up yet; there's enough Mustangs on the road as it is.

Done.
 

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GM Kid said:
Oddly, Grouch, I think we pretty much agree with one another. We just don't know it yet.

FYI: I grew up in the Sun Belt, not the Rust Belt. My family's in Arizona because my dad spent most of his career at the GM Desert Proving Ground.

I agree that when it comes to recent Pontiac styling, there's a not lot to like. Thank goodness Bob Lutz felt the same and took an ax to the Aztek, body cladding and cartoonish styling. When the '93 F-bodies bowed and I was choosing between them, the Camaro got the nod over the Firebird because I thought the 'Bird's styling was just plain over the top.

I also agree that the mullet-wearing, My-Name-Is-Earl crowd gave the F-bodies a bad name (particularly during the IROC-Z era). Smokey and the Bandit and Knight Rider didn't help, either. The "Cheese Era" for these cars lasted far too long, eventually overshadowing their foundational Trans-Am years when guys like Mark Donohue and Roger Penske gave them glory. A shame.

Cars--and brands--can emerge from such shame, though. The Corvette has successfully shed its image as a poseur's chick-magnet, and Cadillac is making great strides toward once again becoming the Standard of the World. Thank goodness the Corvette isn't defined by the horsepower-deficient '76 model year, nor Cadillac by the Cimarron.

I guess I look at my GM fan-dom the way I look at my love for the Arizona State Sun Devils football team: There was a Golden Era when Frank Kush was coach and the Devils were a scrappy, up-and-coming team that routinely took down the national powerhouses, going so far as to beat Nebraska in the '75 Fiesta Bowl. Then there were some horrible, awful, lamentable years when we hung our heads in ignominy. But I stayed a fan throughout all of that, and I still am. For me, the "stigma" of the bad years is overwhelmed by the program's overall success.

Call it selective memory if you will, but I do the same with Pontiac and Chevrolet. I mourn their failures and boneheaded market moves, but I forgive those gaffes and focus instead on their successes.
Agreed on all counts. :cheers
 

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Groucho said:
Why does my well-founded dislike of certain GM brands and certain GM designs constitute a bash on all GM products?

Hellloooo....

The company I work for does advanced R&D work for GM. I have a vested interest in them doing well.
This makes no sense at all. If you have a vested interest in GM doing well, why would you bash any of their products? Maybe this statement was meant to be sarcastic, maybe you claim freedom of speech, or this is just your opinion. Whatever the excuse, if you truly have a vested interest in GM’s future, it would behoove you to play the cheerleader and not the heckler.

Groucho said:
However, I find the design of this new Camaro repulsive, funny, and completely lacking in imagination. It's just another embarrassing "me-too" stab at retro, just like the incredibly silly-looking HHR.
I certainly hope your vested interest is small…
 

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PDSSoft said:
This makes no sense at all. If you have a vested interest in GM doing well, why would you bash any of their products? Maybe this statement was meant to be sarcastic, maybe you claim freedom of speech, or this is just your opinion. Whatever the excuse, if you truly have a vested interest in GM’s future, it would behoove you to play the cheerleader and not the heckler
Please. Don't be an idiot. Or try not to be an idiot, anyway. I've little time for posts with the intellectual level of a throw rug.

But, I'm feeling verbose. Lucky you.

I'm not a blind, robotic fanboi, that's why. I can say WTF I want, and I usually elect to do so. And I happen to think that the vast majority of GM's product is embarrassing crap. Malibu? Impala? Monte Carlo? C'mon. HHR? Hilarious. The Grand Prix is just another FWD car with the driving dynamics of a wheelbarrow. I think all of their CVN-class SUVs look like minivans. That Camaro thing? Nasty- looks like it was designed in 7th Grade shop class.

Good thing you didn't get me started on their horrible after-the-sale service.
 

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PDSSoft said:
This makes no sense at all. If you have a vested interest in GM doing well, why would you bash any of their products? Maybe this statement was meant to be sarcastic, maybe you claim freedom of speech, or this is just your opinion. Whatever the excuse, if you truly have a vested interest in GM’s future, it would behoove you to play the cheerleader and not the heckler.



I certainly hope your vested interest is small…

My guess: With a name like Groucho, he's got an image that he must uphold.;)
 

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Groucho said:
Please. Don't be an idiot. Or try not to be an idiot, anyway. I've little time for posts with the intellectual level of a throw rug.

But, I'm feeling verbose. Lucky you.

I'm not a blind, robotic fanboi, that's why. I can say WTF I want, and I usually elect to do so. And I happen to think that the vast majority of GM's product is embarrassing crap. Malibu? Impala? Monte Carlo? C'mon. HHR? Hilarious. The Grand Prix is just another FWD car with the driving dynamics of a wheelbarrow. I think all of their CVN-class SUVs look like minivans. That Camaro thing? Nasty- looks like it was designed in 7th Grade shop class.

Good thing you didn't get me started on their horrible after-the-sale service.

"I can say WTF I want"

3 :cheers to Pontiac for hornswogg'lin Groucho into their dealership, gettin' him to buy that GTO, in the midst of all his GM trouncing, Mustang-owner style. :eek:
 

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ModBoss2 said:
"I can say WTF I want"

3 :cheers to Pontiac for hornswogg'lin Groucho into their dealership, gettin' him to buy that GTO, in the midst of all his GM trouncing, Mustang-owner style. :eek:
Mustangs are a bigger joke, saddled as they are with a rear suspension one slot removed from a Connestoga Wagon.

It actually didn't take a lot for me to convince myself to buy a car branded as a P-P-Pontiac, because I knew it was a relabeled import, not a glitzy, soft, overweight/underpowered glorified grocery getter like the rest of the FWD sleds in the showroom.

It is, after all, a Holden.
 

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Groucho said:
Please. Don't be an idiot. Or try not to be an idiot, anyway. I've little time for posts with the intellectual level of a throw rug.

But, I'm feeling verbose. Lucky you.

I'm not a blind, robotic fanboi, that's why. I can say WTF I want, and I usually elect to do so. And I happen to think that the vast majority of GM's product is embarrassing crap. Malibu? Impala? Monte Carlo? C'mon. HHR? Hilarious. The Grand Prix is just another FWD car with the driving dynamics of a wheelbarrow. I think all of their CVN-class SUVs look like minivans. That Camaro thing? Nasty- looks like it was designed in 7th Grade shop class.

Good thing you didn't get me started on their horrible after-the-sale service.
Either you are too naive to understand the concept of business ethics or too old to care. Perhaps you are merely an instigator who is intrigued by the argument. Whatever the case, it would appear you have mastered the art of trolling.
 

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Either you are too naive to understand the concept of business ethics or too old to care.
OK, let me get this straight: If one of our clients is the worlds largest automobile manufacturer, it is my moral imperative to defend her products- all of her products- to the death....even the really, really crappy ones?

PDSSoft said:
Whatever the case, it would appear you have mastered the art of trolling.
Thanks, because I've just caught the rare Grape Kool-Aid Detroit Fanboi, (rectalcraniumus-mulletoid)...
 

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It a crazy world. I don't really like literal retro-cars, but don't mind when they keep the flavor of the vehicle. However, I cannot warm up to the look of that Camaro, but I love the shameless rip-off of the new Dodge Challenger showcar. Go figure.

Groucho said:
..not to mention, right-hand drive would make passing a bitch. :D
Nah, using a RHD car in the US is not hard at all. The only excitement comes with tossing coins over the roof on the toll roads, and the toll transponders have now taken care of that problem too! (I had a RHD Lotus Elan for a time :) )
 
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