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AmesGTO said:
They said the are reducing the number of employee's so that they end up with factories that run at 100% capacity. What do they currently run at 75% capacity?
It's something like 85% capacity. GM's got a number of issues -- both white collar and blue collar:

On the white collar side -- it's an attitude that the unions are at fault for everything -- even though they were the ones who offered and signed contracts with generous medical coverages, paying workers to stay home when they're not needed, etc..

On the blue collar side -- they've got a lot of people that just have horrible attitudes. An attitude that GM is simply too big to die. Well, there are bunch of still unemployed Bethlehem Steel employees hanging out in Central/Eastern Pennsylvania -- with no hope of ever having another $20 an hour job again.

When Chrysler was ready to fold in the 70's, one of the UAW executives got on national television and said "the government MUST offer us job training programs." Excuse me? If the UAW was an inspired organization -- they'd be a true partner with GM and look for ways to do things faster and more efficiently. THEY should be training their workers to be more valuable.

Sadly, their idea of a "dream job," even to this day, is to come to the plant drunk and sleep on a couch all day.
 

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b_a_betterperson said:
It's something like 85% capacity. GM's got a number of issues -- both white collar and blue collar:

On the white collar side -- it's an attitude that the unions are at fault for everything -- even though they were the ones who offered and signed contracts with generous medical coverages, paying workers to stay home when they're not needed, etc..

On the blue collar side -- they've got a lot of people that just have horrible attitudes. An attitude that GM is simply too big to die. Well, there are bunch of still unemployed Bethlehem Steel employees hanging out in Central/Eastern Pennsylvania -- with no hope of ever having another $20 an hour job again.

When Chrysler was ready to fold in the 70's, one of the UAW executives got on national television and said "the government MUST offer us job training programs." Excuse me? If the UAW was an inspired organization -- they'd be a true partner with GM and look for ways to do things faster and more efficiently. THEY should be training their workers to be more valuable.

Sadly, their idea of a "dream job," even to this day, is to come to the plant drunk and sleep on a couch all day.
:agree
 

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b_a_betterperson said:
It's something like 85% capacity. GM's got a number of issues -- both white collar and blue collar:

On the white collar side -- it's an attitude that the unions are at fault for everything -- even though they were the ones who offered and signed contracts with generous medical coverages, paying workers to stay home when they're not needed, etc..

On the blue collar side -- they've got a lot of people that just have horrible attitudes. An attitude that GM is simply too big to die. Well, there are bunch of still unemployed Bethlehem Steel employees hanging out in Central/Eastern Pennsylvania -- with no hope of ever having another $20 an hour job again.

When Chrysler was ready to fold in the 70's, one of the UAW executives got on national television and said "the government MUST offer us job training programs." Excuse me? If the UAW was an inspired organization -- they'd be a true partner with GM and look for ways to do things faster and more efficiently. THEY should be training their workers to be more valuable.

Sadly, their idea of a "dream job," even to this day, is to come to the plant drunk and sleep on a couch all day.
+1 :agree

Don't get me started on Unions-- but they are far from the only major problem at the General.

That's a lot of people to lay off, and I'm sorry for the folks who worked hard only to get laid off... but let's hpe GM emerges from this leaner and meaner.
 

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Groucho said:
+1 :agree

Don't get me started on Unions-- but they are far from the only major problem at the General.

That's a lot of people to lay off, and I'm sorry for the folks who worked hard only to get laid off... but let's hpe GM emerges from this leaner and meaner.
Yes, we all hope.... :cheers
 

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one major thing about this that really pisses me off, it these are from USA held jobs.

what about spreading it around the globe a little ? :confused
 

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westell said:
one major thing about this that really pisses me off, it these are from USA held jobs.

what about spreading it around the globe a little ? :confused
Unfortunately, the manufacturing of cars and trucks in the United States is far more expensive here than anywhere else. The environmental laws, the worker safety laws, the union contracts, the way medical costs are set up, etc. And I'll tell you what -- the average American consumer would buy cars screwed together in Iran or North Korea if they were cheap enough, even though those governments are working day and night on as many ways to be a pain in our collective butts as possible. It's the only thing GM can do to survive.

The US has entered into "fair trade" agreements with countries around the world. So we're technically on "even" ground with China. Trouble is, to build a factory here in the US, you're probably going to spend 5 years on environmental impact reports, etc. before you can break ground -- and that's even if they'll let you.

Meanwhile, in China, they'll just chop down trees, build a plant, pay their people peanuts, and dump all kinds of filth into the air and the water. And a Hyundai that costs $15K USD in Seoul sells for $15K USD here -- meanwhile, an $18K USD Cobalt sells for $50K USD there because of Korea's blatantly protectionist laws and distribution systems for imports. What's fair about that? Why isn't the WTO screaming bloody murder over that?

No wonder GM's dumping 1 out 6 jobs. Good, head of household, middle class jobs. Because plants are being closed -- that's going to cause a ripple effect as their suppliers begin to shut down. My guess? This is going to lead to at least 150,000 people being thrown out of work.

And before we go off on a Democrat/Republican/Liberal/Conservative thing -- please be advised that both parties and both belief systems are equally guilty because they're both entered into equally damaging agreements. Bottom line? They're all the same.
 

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westell said:
one major thing about this that really pisses me off, it these are from USA held jobs.

what about spreading it around the globe a little ? :confused
GM europe and australia are doing fine, why penalize them?

The problem is not Korea or Japan. Most Japanese cars are built in the US and Hyudai is following suit. Honda is the number one exporter of automobiles from the US. The problem is that GM beleived for such a long period of time that Toyota and Honda and such were not competition. They didn't negotiate properly with the union and they allowed poor quality cars to be made. They quit being innovative to save a buck. They stretched to save a pennies anywhere they could, and got a reputation for cheapness. They are reaping what they sow. 20 years from now Hyundai and Kia will have surpassed Honda and Toyota. Those two will be in decline and hopefully GM and Ford will still be around to make a comeback. For now lets hope that foreign car manufacturers keep adding plants here so these GM workers have a place to go. Also lets hope they don't take the flock of sheep union mentality with them to their new jobs.
 

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Buy from domestic companies, you allow them to generate profit to reinvest in the United States and expand to other markets. Buy from foreign based companies, you allow them to hurt the United States by exporting profit and giving them the capital to grow elsewhere. Period.

As for unfair trade practices, don't have the time to get into it. Some people get it. Some don't.

Sure, it's easy to bash GM and tell all their suppliers and employees "tough crap" instead trying to help them out by purchasing the best product they offer. They're so stupid -- they get what they deserve.

Since you live in Florida, maybe we should tell you guys "tough crap" instead of helping your state out the next time a hurricane throws your alligators and toothless Earnhardt fans around like ping pong balls in a lottery machine. Maybe we should go so far as to block all the highways out of the state so you have to ride it out.

After all, you chose to live in hurriance country -- so why should other people have to bail you out of your bad decision? Why should other people's property insurance rates go up to help pay for all the damage?

After all, people get what they deserve, right?
 

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b_a_betterperson said:
Buy from domestic companies, you allow them to generate profit to reinvest in the United States and expand to other markets. Buy from foreign based companies, you allow them to hurt the United States by exporting profit and giving them the capital to grow elsewhere. Period.

As for unfair trade practices, don't have the time to get into it. Some people get it. Some don't.

Sure, it's easy to bash GM and tell all their suppliers and employees "tough crap" instead trying to help them out by purchasing the best product they offer. They're so stupid -- they get what they deserve.

Since you live in Florida, maybe we should tell you guys "tough crap" instead of helping your state out the next time a hurricane throws your alligators and toothless Earnhardt fans around like ping pong balls in a lottery machine. Maybe we should go so far as to block all the highways out of the state so you have to ride it out.

After all, you chose to live in hurriance country -- so why should other people have to bail you out of your bad decision? Why should other people's property insurance rates go up to help pay for all the damage?

After all, people get what they deserve, right?

Wow, let's get personal here!!!

First off, I buy American and I'm proud of it. I try not to buy anything from countries that are really our enemies, like China.

I understand that foreign companies take profits out of the US. It is much better when they have plants here and we purchase their goods.

Trade practices are truly not fair right now. A bunch of tree huggers and sue everybody because nothing stupid I do is my fault types have hurt the US. Sure we need to protect the enviroment and hold manufacturers liable for defective products, but we have gone way past sensible. In addition, foriegn companies don't have to worry about our regulations so they enjoy a sizeable advantage. The enviromental movement, that is worried about global warming, needs to organize a boycott of any product that comes from countries that have factories that do not meet current US emission standards and enviromental regulations. This would do more to help the world than the slight improvement it would be possible for us to make. Problem is most of them really hate the US and capitalism and that is why they do what they do.

I'm not sure why you dislike Florida so much. The state actually recovered from the record-setting 4 hurricanes in one season fairly quickly, and unlike you seem to think, without much outside help. We have no state income tax unlike California's max of 9% and we have a massive budget surplus (5 billion +) unlike California's deficit. The roads here are great. People are friendlier. While they may like Earnhardt, they aren't stupid enough to support Michael Jackson.

I lived through a minor 5.8 earthquake, and I'll take a hurricane anytime. Let's wait till you have the big one. Sure people leave here when the storms come, but they come back. Maybe we should close the borders of Nevada, Oregon, Washington and Arizona to all the people that are trying to escape California's high taxes, high cost of living and over-reaching government. The only population growth you have now is illegal immigrants.

As for the insurance rates, it is double the cost here that it was in California for property insurance. That tells you Floridians pay for the cost of living here. We also don't expect nearby states to subsidise our electrical costs. As when any natural disaster has occurred neighbors help neighbors.

I have bought mostly GM cars for the last 10 years. I have tried to help them out, and did not say tough crap to the GM employees and suppliers. I believe what I said was lets hope foreign manufacturers continue adding plants here to help these guys.

Lastly, most people do get what they deserve. There are some people that get caught up in the situation, and I feel sympathy towards them. In GM's case, the unions (read workers) and management both got greedy. When things were great they squeezed for more and cashed big bonuses, and when things turned bad they each said well GM will be here forever, and I'm not giving anything up. The workers could take some pay and benefit cuts, the management could do the same. The retirees could give a little back. They all need to work together, but all they do is stand around and blame their problems on someone else and look for outside help to bail them out. They all felt they deserved the gravy train they were on, and now the train wreck isn't very fun.
 

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Gosh guys, lets stick to car talk here. We all have something in common, and thats why we meet here. Lets not hash out political views, and fling stinging personal barbs.

b a.....My car was supposed to have a dead pedal....how the hell did you get one?

fergey.......Go Gators?????????

LOL
 

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JMVorbeck said:
Gosh guys, lets stick to car talk here. We all have something in common, and thats why we meet here. Lets not hash out political views, and fling stinging personal barbs.

b a.....My car was supposed to have a dead pedal....how the hell did you get one?

fergey.......Go Gators?????????

LOL
If you've got a 2005 -- that lump under the rug is supposed to be your dead pedal.

What I did to mine was take an accelerator pedal, flip it upside down, and attach it to a 1/4" thick L bracket. Very easy to do in a 2004 -- just fabricate the pedal assembly, cut a slit in the rug, stick the L portion of the bracket against the firewall, then shoot a couple of self tapping screws through everything. Really turned out great.

If you're serious, order your pedal through either Gene Culley at Fred Beans or Steve the GTODEALER -- they quote around $27 to $30 plus shipping -- whereas the typical MSRP is something like, if you can believe this, $61.

As for putting one in a 2005, I don't know what that lump is. The bummer is that you'd have to pull your rug up. There's an anchoring nut up and in front of the clutch pedal which is a breeze to take out -- but that kick panel on the left side of the footwell is a total PITA. And who knows how the lump is mounted? Good luck. It is the single biggest improvement you can make to a GTO.
 

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JTYLER1604 said:
What the heck is a dead pedal?
A place to rest your tired, weary left foot when its not busily pumping the clutch. Most standard shift cars have them. The 04 didnt but [they] advertised the 05 as getting one along with the rest of the upgrades. I thought they scrapped the idea by production time, I wasnt aware that the stuipd bump was supposed to be it.
 
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