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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The recent catastrophic transmission failure I've experienced has me very concerned about my ownership of this fine car.

It's not even so much that the Tremec went kablooie after freeway 31,000 miles, though that is disappointing. It's the way the service department initially dealt with the problem.

Their default position is that the customer is an idiot. Feed him happy talk, blame someone else, deal with the situation in the most half-assed way possible, and send him on his merry, drooling way. That is a dangerous position to take.

The GTO reflects a huge step forward in GM's attempt to resurrect the Pontiac brand from it's pathetic legacy, as the Holden exhibits a driving experience and build quality that is head, shoulders, and most of the torso above and beyond her Red Arrowhead stable mates. If this is the future of GM, it is bright indeed. However, the whole ownership experience needs to improve if GM is to assert its role as the worlds best car maker...and a huge part of that comes from the quality of work, attitude, and general professionalism of the service department.

They have a loooooong way to go.
 

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Outside of the initial screw up -- it seems like your dealer's service department stepped up, got to the bottom of the problem, and got it fixed.

The guy who lives across the street from me bought his wife an Audi TT for a birthday present -- and one of the headlights burned out a couple of days after he got it home. He's always working on his cars -- so he drove back to the dealer and asked for just the lightbulb so he could put it in. No big deal, right?

The dealer's service advisor flat out lies through his teeth by saying all kinds of body panels, etc. had to be removed. So he left it -- and the car has been gone for TWO WEEKS. Week one: no "factory" lightbulbs available. Week two: dealer service department backlog. In the meantime, his poor wife is driving around in a POS VW New Beetle with CARLSEN AUDI COMPLIMENTARY SERVICE VEHICLE in 30 inch tall letters on every side of it.

I don't even want to get into the crap my wife went through with the BMW she had when I first met her. It's just amazing that the automobile industry, in large part, STILL hasn't figured out how to treat people right during the sales and service processess.

On a happier note, the service department at Marina Pontiac in San Leandro, CA is awesome. As an example, my gas cap broke -- so I call their service desk. The guy checked to see if they had the part in stock. Nope -- but ordered one based on my description. Took a week for it to come in -- and they got it swapped it out in 5 minutes on the first visit while I waited.

No need for a separate trip for them to do the diagnosis -- which is pretty cool in my book. Good luck with your car either tonight or tomorrow.
 

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I took a bath to the tune of about $5,000 because I foolishly bought a leftover 01 Aurora in March 02. Had I leased an acura TL or even a 02 Aurora I would have not only been up $5,000, but my car would not have been in the shop for 40 days in three years. Six days for a power steering pump, three of them in the corner because I didnt buy it from them, and they looked at it on the fourth to order the part.

Five trips for a shimmy, four trips because it stalled, three or four trips to fix a rattle, four trips for a fog light bulb. all had TSBs out all TSBs were ignored even when handed to the service advisor.

Everything was finally right at the end of month 37 when the bulb behind the speedo went. That was the straw that broke the camels back.

I cant afford the payment on a Acura MDX touring, and my wife insists on memory seats, so I may have to go to a Buick Rendexvous Ultra. One thing for sure, if there is a creak or rattle I will fix it with some JB weld. if there is a defect in the paint I wont care, if the trunk leaks like the auroras did, out comes the 1/4 drill bit, and in goes a plastic plug when I return the car.
 

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Groucho said:
The recent catastrophic transmission failure I've experienced has me very concerned about my ownership of this fine car.

It's not even so much that the Tremec went kablooie after freeway 31,000 miles, though that is disappointing. It's the way the service department initially dealt with the problem.

Their default position is that the customer is an idiot. Feed him happy talk, blame someone else, deal with the situation in the most half-assed way possible, and send him on his merry, drooling way. That is a dangerous position to take.

The GTO reflects a huge step forward in GM's attempt to resurrect the Pontiac brand from it's pathetic legacy, as the Holden exhibits a driving experience and build quality that is head, shoulders, and most of the torso above and beyond her Red Arrowhead stable mates. If this is the future of GM, it is bright indeed. However, the whole ownership experience needs to improve if GM is to assert its role as the worlds best car maker...and a huge part of that comes from the quality of work, attitude, and general professionalism of the service department.

They have a loooooong way to go.
Sorry to hear about your crappy experience with Pontiac's service department. But bashing the auto maker because it's service department employees are feeding you a load of sh!t isn't fair. I'm sure that Pontiac dealerships doesn't train their employees to be worthless. Some just are. And I'm sure Holden has a few employees who are worthy of a bullet. And really, you can't blame Pontiac for poor build quality especially when the car was built by Holden :confused . Not trying to get you fired up but sometimes you're really hard on Pontiac, the car maker of a vehicle you bought. I just don't get it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
6QTS11OZ said:
Sorry to hear about your crappy experience with Pontiac's service department. But bashing the auto maker because it's service department employees are feeding you a load of sh!t isn't fair. I'm sure that Pontiac dealerships doesn't train their employees to be worthless. Some just are. And I'm sure Holden has a few employees who are worthy of a bullet. And really, you can't blame Pontiac for poor build quality especially when the car was built by Holden :confused . Not trying to get you fired up but sometimes you're really hard on Pontiac, the car maker of a vehicle you bought. I just don't get it.
I'm hard on GM, not Pontiac. This dealer is a Pontiac / GMC / Buick dealer....and my point isd the poor service. I'm willing to accept that mass-produced parts occasionally fail. I wish the cars distributor would do the same.

If you think two weeks is a fair amount of time to diagnose and repair a problem with transmission, God bless you...but I think that's screwing the dog.

I can compare and contrast with my experience owning my BMW 323i. I purchased it as a CPO, which carries with it a 100k drivetrain warranty. I bought her with ~40k miles on it and sold her with 175k miles on the clock.

Every time it had to go in for an overnight service I got a new-car loaner...and a comperable loaner at that (always another 3-series, sometimes one with <100 miles on the odo). It was never in for longer than 3 days. I had some initial problems with the cooling system, but it was fixed after two visits...and, as I said, it was fixed right and it was fixed quickly. The guys at the parts counter were competent, friendly, and knowledgeable.

I understand that I probably got lucky with the BMW dealer, but so far I am unimpressed with GM's level of service. Their cycle time is FAR to long, the loaner car is a buzzbox pile, their parts guys go blank when you start asking about GTO parts and seldom return phone calls. I had to finally call GTODEALER in Texas to get the parts I needed!!! I paid $8000 more for the GTO than I did for my 3-series, and yet I feel I am getting Kia-level service. Buying a New Car is about more than having a lot of zeroes on the odometer-- it's about having the manufacturer and their licensed representatives standing behind their product. To be fair, GM did eventually stand behind the GTO transmission, but it has taken far too long.

When I drop $30k for a car, I expect a certain level of service. I understand vehicles, I work on them when I have to...but one of the things I pay for when I buy a car from a showroom floor is for others-- presumably better equipped and trained than I-- to do it.
 

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There are bad dealers. Go somewhere else.

I get great treatment on my cars at my GM dealer. Sales guy always gives me his car to drive. Over-night is the longest they have ever kept it and when they did they parked it inside, I went and checked:) When it is parked outside for me to come and pick up during the day it's parked in a good spot, no dings.
 

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The service dept. reflects the dealership not GM. Each dealership manages its own service dept. their own way. I know several service writers that worked for various different dealerships and they know that some are slime. They care only about profit and sales and don't care about keeping customers happy if they don't see immediate profit in it. Make sure you get the service survey and bash the ones that are not adequate. My dealership has great customer service and does not try to sell service that is not required. Don't forget you can bring the car anywhere that is certified to do the repairs.
 

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You got a transmission replaced under warranty. Loaner as well -- something Pontiac doesn't have to do. The parts took a little while -- as the GTO's a low volume car. What's the big deal?

Frankly, I bet you BMW really would have given you a bad time if a transmission part failed with an aftermarket shifter on it. I can see it now...

BMW: "Welcome to Big Money Waste BMW, may I help you?"

G: "I'm here to see Wolfgang about my 3-series."

BMW: "One moment. Help yourself to a cup of coffee."

G: "OK. Oooh, hazelnut creamer."

WG: "Ah, Groucho. It is gut to ze you again. How is ze new radiator we put in last week?

G: "Fine, I guess. Just not used to having the plastic top pop off a radiator at 20,000 miles."

WG: "Well, Mr. Groucho, you did not put ze pure Bavarian anti-freeze from the Fatherland. Your inferior American anti-freeze clearly caused the failure, which is vy we did not cover it under ze warranty."

G: "Great, I know -- even though I never touched the anti-freeze. Now about my transmission."

WG: "Yes, vat about your transmission?"

G: "Well, it's making this noise. Sounds like Katie Couric when she has to think."

WG: "Let me see here. Vat are these black stripes across the top of your car, Mr. Groucho?"

G: "I had these put on last week."

WG: "They are, as you say, rather unfortunate as they detract from the fine German heritage zat is part of the DNA of every BMW. Und have you made any other modifications to ze car?"

G: "Well, I put a short shift kit in to cut the 18 inch long throws down a bit."

WG: "Zo you have modified your transmission, because you Americans are always in zuch a hurry, yes? And ze transmission is now broken, yes? And what do you want us to do about it?"

G: "Fix it under warranty."

WG: "Mr. Groucho. You have taken a pristine example of Teutonic engineering and defiled it with a zhift kit no doubt made in ze United States by people who are not blonde haired and blue eyed. This is not acceptable! You can not defile ze work of BMW and expect us to pay for your mistakes! Good day, Mr. Groucho. Please proceed to the cashier zo you can pay $3 for your coffee plus a $2 upcharge for ze hazelnut creamer, plus a zeventy dollar diagnosis fee."
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
:rofl: :rofl:

Ah, crap...and thousands of comedians out of work... :D

That's pretty good...but you missed my favorite Bimmer-riffs:

"Ja, ja, we fix. Bring checkbook."

"Ah, I see...ze problem iss not wiff ze automobile, ze problem iss wiff you, yes?"

:rofl:
 

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b_a_betterperson said:
You got a transmission replaced under warranty. Loaner as well -- something Pontiac doesn't have to do. The parts took a little while -- as the GTO's a low volume car. What's the big deal?

Frankly, I bet you BMW really would have given you a bad time if a transmission part failed with an aftermarket shifter on it. I can see it now...

BMW: "Welcome to Big Money Waste BMW, may I help you?"

G: "I'm here to see Wolfgang about my 3-series."

BMW: "One moment. Help yourself to a cup of coffee."

G: "OK. Oooh, hazelnut creamer."

WG: "Ah, Groucho. It is gut to ze you again. How is ze new radiator we put in last week?

G: "Fine, I guess. Just not used to having the plastic top pop off a radiator at 20,000 miles."

WG: "Well, Mr. Groucho, you did not put ze pure Bavarian anti-freeze from the Fatherland. Your inferior American anti-freeze clearly caused the failure, which is vy we did not cover it under ze warranty."

G: "Great, I know -- even though I never touched the anti-freeze. Now about my transmission."

WG: "Yes, vat about your transmission?"

G: "Well, it's making this noise. Sounds like Katie Couric when she has to think."

WG: "Let me see here. Vat are these black stripes across the top of your car, Mr. Groucho?"

G: "I had these put on last week."

WG: "They are, as you say, rather unfortunate as they detract from the fine German heritage zat is part of the DNA of every BMW. Und have you made any other modifications to ze car?"

G: "Well, I put a short shift kit in to cut the 18 inch long throws down a bit."

WG: "Zo you have modified your transmission, because you Americans are always in zuch a hurry, yes? And ze transmission is now broken, yes? And what do you want us to do about it?"

G: "Fix it under warranty."

WG: "Mr. Groucho. You have taken a pristine example of Teutonic engineering and defiled it with a zhift kit no doubt made in ze United States by people who are not blonde haired and blue eyed. This is not acceptable! You can not defile ze work of BMW and expect us to pay for your mistakes! Good day, Mr. Groucho. Please proceed to the cashier zo you can pay $3 for your coffee plus a $2 upcharge for ze hazelnut creamer, plus a zeventy dollar diagnosis fee."
:rofl: Damn that's funny :rofl: . And on the serious side of what you're saying, I also don't think BMW would have been pleased with covering a failed transmission with an aftermarket shifter on it.
 

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b_a_betterperson said:
You got a transmission replaced under warranty. Loaner as well -- something Pontiac doesn't have to do. The parts took a little while -- as the GTO's a low volume car. What's the big deal?

Frankly, I bet you BMW really would have given you a bad time if a transmission part failed with an aftermarket shifter on it. I can see it now...

BMW: "Welcome to Big Money Waste BMW, may I help you?"

G: "I'm here to see Wolfgang about my 3-series."

BMW: "One moment. Help yourself to a cup of coffee."

G: "OK. Oooh, hazelnut creamer."

WG: "Ah, Groucho. It is gut to ze you again. How is ze new radiator we put in last week?

G: "Fine, I guess. Just not used to having the plastic top pop off a radiator at 20,000 miles."

WG: "Well, Mr. Groucho, you did not put ze pure Bavarian anti-freeze from the Fatherland. Your inferior American anti-freeze clearly caused the failure, which is vy we did not cover it under ze warranty."

G: "Great, I know -- even though I never touched the anti-freeze. Now about my transmission."

WG: "Yes, vat about your transmission?"

G: "Well, it's making this noise. Sounds like Katie Couric when she has to think."

WG: "Let me see here. Vat are these black stripes across the top of your car, Mr. Groucho?"

G: "I had these put on last week."

WG: "They are, as you say, rather unfortunate as they detract from the fine German heritage zat is part of the DNA of every BMW. Und have you made any other modifications to ze car?"

G: "Well, I put a short shift kit in to cut the 18 inch long throws down a bit."

WG: "Zo you have modified your transmission, because you Americans are always in zuch a hurry, yes? And ze transmission is now broken, yes? And what do you want us to do about it?"

G: "Fix it under warranty."

WG: "Mr. Groucho. You have taken a pristine example of Teutonic engineering and defiled it with a zhift kit no doubt made in ze United States by people who are not blonde haired and blue eyed. This is not acceptable! You can not defile ze work of BMW and expect us to pay for your mistakes! Good day, Mr. Groucho. Please proceed to the cashier zo you can pay $3 for your coffee plus a $2 upcharge for ze hazelnut creamer, plus a zeventy dollar diagnosis fee."
:rofl: :lol: :rofl:
 

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Zo you laugh at my jokes, Mr. Groucho? BMW does not cover jokes under our warranty or maintenance plan. Zat will require us to prepare invoices for ze jokes. Please return to ze cashier at once.

OK, enough of this. Again, hope your dealer did everything right this time!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
b_a_betterperson said:
Zo you laugh at my jokes, Mr. Groucho? BMW does not cover jokes under our warranty or maintenance plan. Zat will require us to prepare invoices for ze jokes. Please return to ze cashier at once.

OK, enough of this. Again, hope your dealer did everything right this time!
"NEIN! You cannot pay zis. Your paypahs ah not in ohtah!"
 

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I thought BMW stood for Bring My Wallet :lol:

I find most the time that the level of service is directly proportional to the cost of the vehicle. The work isn't any better, just the service.

What gets me is the level of BS that these GM disservice depts give people and the customer is like.. 'OK, bye bye, see you next time.'

'Complaint not found' my ass, you better go back and look again. I had the dealer I bought my car from do that 6 days after buying it. After I showed diagnosed the problem for them, they couldn't duplicate, I took the car and went to the dealer up the road and let them fix it.
 

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I can tell you from personal experiance that the service you get is limited to the dealership you go to. I have gone to several different GM dealerships and in my area GM as a whole needs to step in there collective asses about there LACK of customer service. I can tell you that both the BMW dealers in my area are very responsive to there costomers to the point were they replaced a year old 6 series and BMW not the dealership covered the cost. That is not the first time I have seen them do that.
 

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silvergoat05 said:
I thought BMW stood for Bring My Wallet :lol:

I find most the time that the level of service is directly proportional to the cost of the vehicle. The work isn't any better, just the service.

What gets me is the level of BS that these GM disservice depts give people and the customer is like.. 'OK, bye bye, see you next time.'

'Complaint not found' my ass, you better go back and look again. I had the dealer I bought my car from do that 6 days after buying it. After I showed diagnosed the problem for them, they couldn't duplicate, I took the car and went to the dealer up the road and let them fix it.
Yeah, I got the same line of cr*p about my DIC showing "low coolant." Guess what?? It still does it. Also, went to pick up floor mat pins and was in a might big rush over lunch, the parts clerk said I'd need to drive my car in and have them installed! :rolleyes: I was like "these are just floormat pins, I can put them in myself." I left pissed, along with my issues with the crooked sale of the vehicle I will never go back again. BTW, this is Belhmann Pontiac, if you're wise do not do business there.

b_a_betterperson - you're hilarious!
 
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