[LarryM]

I had a conversation with a classic GTO owner that is pretty into doing recreational burnouts. He says what he does is back the rear brakes off a couple notches. This way he can lock up the front, get the burn started and then slightly let off the brakes to allow the car to crawl forward a bit (he says the new pavment produces better smoke)

Now I know what terrible things burn outs do to regular street tires - the heat from the friction that is melting the surface rubber is also causing a chemical reaction in the remaining tread - forever making it harder and less traction... but I have seen a video of a new GTO doing a pretty good burnout... it has the nice slow "crawl", then suddenly lurches forward.

The guy must have done something to the rear brakes to get this effect, what?

---Larry

 

[BLUSHIRT35]

if you cant do a burn out or hole shot or whatever we call it then you dont deserve the car or a license lol .. one way is to just rev it up to 6 grand and drop the clutch and just pin it till 2nd gear . then you have the automatic guys like me that just power brake 30 foot long rubber marks like i did in my 87 t-type which by the way ran 13.30 on street tires and passed emmissions here in ny

 

[rock421]

Larry, you could put a line lock on the car, but I would hate to see you tamper with factory brake lines. More practice I say!....more practice!
Larry.............................did you turn off the traction control??????

 

[Redline]

manual or auto?

 

[LarryM]

Let me see if I can remember all the questions..

Easy one first: I have an auto, I believe the classic was also an auto, no idea what the car in the video was.

Linelock - that was my first question to him - but he says that linelocks are all or nothing - and you want to be able to let the car move slightly forward to keep getting a little fresh asphalt under the tires. That's why he backs the rear brakes off before he goes. This lets him easy up on the brake -just a bit- and let the car inch forward.

Blueshirt - are you saying that if the brakes are locked up enough to keep the car from moving that the rear will still over come the brakes and spin? (ya-ya rock, assuming one is intelligent enough to take the TCS off! Duuuhhhh)

It was my assumption that with rear disks - especially since you can't back the adjustment off, that they'd have too much grab.


Again, I'm not certain I would actually like to do this with MY car, but I would like to know how.

---Larry


Blueshirt - just noticed that you had a 87 T-Type - I had an 87 Grand National! Its funny, I think the GN/T-type should be just a bit slower in the quarter mile than the GTO - but the GTO sure FEELS a LOT faster, doesn't it? I mean a LOT. Maybe its the way the GTO has "instant" power vs the smooth spool up of the Buick. Getting back to this subject - the Buick had rear drums, so even if you don't back the adjusters off, they won't have the as much grab as the GTOs disks. Yes?

 

[Redline]

get advice from a pro on auto burnouts

 

[rock421]

Sorry Larry, I couldn't resist. The linelock will only hold whatever pressure is in the front lines at the time it is activated. I you don't have your foot on the pedal, there is no pressure to retain up front. The trick is to have light brake pedal pressure, hit the linelock, let off the brake pedal and whack the gas. You can experiment with different foot pressures to five you more or less drag on the rotors. You CAN push the pressure higher while the lock is activated. It's kind of like an electronically actuated one way valve.
I think it's really what you are looking for.
Whatever you do, DO NOT "neutral drop" the car. Never rev it up then let it slam into gear. Bad things happen Larry.........Bad things.

See ya, Brian

 

[George8211]

I had a conversation with a classic GTO owner that is pretty into doing recreational burnouts. He says what he does is back the rear brakes off a couple notches. This way he can lock up the front, get the burn started and then slightly let off the brakes to allow the car to crawl forward a bit

I beleive the rear brakes that this guy has are self adjusting. If so, an evening of driving would reset them to the proper brake setting. He must do alot of 'turing the star wheel'. The easiest way is to have so much power that you really don't have to worry about brakes. Just like you saw in the movie.... That was not brakes... just Raw Torque.

The guy must have done something to the rear brakes to get this effect, what?

Lots of horse power. & torque

 

[George8211]

Whatever you do, DO NOT "neutral drop" the car. Never rev it up then let it slam into gear. See ya, Brian

:agree This can result in a very expensive and embarasing burn out... (automatics)

 

[LarryM]

get advice from a pro on auto burnouts

This guy is about as close to "pro" as I'll ever come to meeting.

Trouble is, altho both our cars say "GTO" on the outside, too much is different on the inside.

To counter his brake adjustments, I wondered if there could be some form of clip/pin. The pin would go between the calipers and keep them from closing, the clip would hold it in place. Not sure if that'd drive the anti-lock nutso tho.

---Larry

 

[LarryM]

Sorry Larry, I couldn't resist. The linelock will only hold whatever pressure is in the front lines at the time it is activated. I you don't have your foot on the pedal, there is no pressure to retain up front. The trick is to have light brake pedal pressure, hit the linelock, let off the brake pedal and whack the gas. You can experiment with different foot pressures to five you more or less drag on the rotors. You CAN push the pressure higher while the lock is activated. It's kind of like an electronically actuated one way valve.
I think it's really what you are looking for.
Whatever you do, DO NOT "neutral drop" the car. Never rev it up then let it slam into gear. Bad things happen Larry.........Bad things.

See ya, Brian

Okay I''ll admit I deserved some razzing for such a dumb cluck move.

Instead of a linelock (or my clip/pin idea) are there devices that would change the proportioning to the front/rear? Not quite as handy as a linelock which is probably perfect for actual drag racing where you do want all brakes/no brakes in an instant.

And as far as the N->D drop - yes, even this geeky programmer knew that that was a bad move. I've read a couple places recently that putting your car in Neutral for a stop light is a good idea - and while it is nice to sit there without your foot on the brake, I get nervous about that N->D move even tho the engine is idling. The car doesn't seem to do that "launch mode" properly then. For those of you with manuals - the sales guy pointed this out to me, and it is in the pretty silver Pontiac GTO book - when you have your foot on the brake and shift the car from Park to Drive, the back end of the car "squats" down a rather noticable amount - "launch mode". I don't make this up, its what's in the book.

---Larry

 

[Dukeboy57]

The classic GTO had drums on the rear and backing off the adjustment would allow you to not have as much stopping power back there. There is no adjustment on rear disc brakes (or front, for that matter), and it's not necessary anyway. All you have to do is power-brake it. Hold the brake with left foot, hit the gas with right foot. The front brakes keep the car from moving forward. For the rears, the engine can generate more twisting power than the brakes can grab, so welcome to smoke-land . If you want to move a little, let off lightly on the pedal. You'll just have to experiment here as to how much. For the classic GTO, backing off the rear adjustment eliminates the experimentation stage. It's not really necessary to do a successful burn-out.

 

[Dukeboy57]

And as far as the N->D drop - yes, even this geeky programmer knew that that was a bad move. I've read a couple places recently that putting your car in Neutral for a stop light is a good idea - and while it is nice to sit there without your foot on the brake, I get nervous about that N->D move even tho the engine is idling. The car doesn't seem to do that "launch mode" properly then. For those of you with manuals - the sales guy pointed this out to me, and it is in the pretty silver Pontiac GTO book - when you have your foot on the brake and shift the car from Park to Drive, the back end of the car "squats" down a rather noticable amount - "launch mode". I don't make this up, its what's in the book.

---Larry

It's also unsafe in case someone behind you reading the paper, drinking their coffee, talking on a cell-phone, and making a pot-roast suddenly realizes they're 30 feet from you when they're going 50MPH. If you have it in gear, and are paying attention to your rear-view (yes, even at stop-lights), you'll be able to get out of the way quicker. They teach this at Motorcycle Safety classes, also.

 

[LarryM]

I'm afraid that in that situation all I'd be able to do is grit my teeth and watch it happen (as it did once in a previous car) - there's just no place TO go. But actually, taking my foot OFF the brake just before he hit me allow my car to xfer the energy into movement rather than having to absorb it. So despite that the guy REALLY WALLOPED me, the car had relatively little damage.

---Larry

 

[AlaskaGTO]

What kind of sissy buys a muscle car with an automatic? OOPS, did I say that out loud?!? :cool Just teasing you Larry.

 

[BLUSHIRT35]

hey alaska i have an automatic and you would too if you had nothing but trafffic jams most of the day here in the ny area . a stick is just not practical here unfortunately and im sure in other high volume areas. anyone buying a stick in a highly populated area give them props but im not gonna go thru that crap again lol

 

[BLUSHIRT35]

hey larry thought you had a stick ? if its an automatic you have just burn the tires like you have the grand national again . mu ttype ran the 1330s with sliht modifications like new exhaust , gutted the cat , my own ram air design ,and 104 + in the tank with a quarter tank of gas . no down pie cheating crap never did that just ran it thru closed exhaust. but im leaving the goat stock and just driving it everyday and will be going to the track soon just out of curiosity.

 

[lisatw151]

Hey, I live in Charlotte...no...it's NOT the hick town everyone thinks it is. Not quite as big as Atlanta, but still with our share of traffic. But I just HAD to have the stick. I understand the issues all too well in dealing with traffic, but the stick is still just so much more fun. My other half thought I was crazy when I brought it home and had gotten the 6M. Oh well.

 

[LarryM]

What kind of sissy buys a muscle car with an automatic? OOPS, did I say that out loud?!? :cool Just teasing you Larry.

In my youth, the first car I bought (a 1962 trubo charged Olds Jetfire) had auto, the next car stick, then auto, then stick... See the pattern here? I have the auto, then think: "Oh, if only I had a stick - the car would be so much more fun to drive!" Then I get the stick and UGH! The 99% of the time you dread sitting in traffic just doesn't make up for the 1% that you actually get to enjoy the stick.

Besides, look at the numbers - the auto is what, a tenth of a second off the 0-60 time? a couple tenths (I think) in the 1/4 mile - that just isn't enough margin for the little bit of street racing I get to do

Besides - I'm an old fart! Not some knuckle dragging, slopped forehead young kid that hasn't learned the advantage of letting technology do the shifting.

But to each their own. Those of you with the 6-speeds, enjoy them. Those of us with autos will try to not spill our latte's as we actually get to enjoy the ride.

---Larry

 

[LarryM]

hey larry thought you had a stick ? if its an automatic you have just burn the tires like you have the grand national again ....

But the GN/TType had rear drums, which I assumed just don't have the grab of the GTO's rear disks. My thought is that with the front's sufficiently engaged to hold the car in place, that the rears will have a lot of grab to over come... surely it would be better to do something to elimnate that, or at least lessen it. ???

You're right, in the GN, the "launch" consisted of jamming on the brakes with left foot, while knudging up the throttle to get the engine up to a 1 lb boost, release brake, floor accelerator. By the time you got to 1 lb boost, the tires were rotating. 1lb doesn't sound like a lot of boost for a car that'd go 20lbs (in first) but it let the turbo get all spooled up and the "lag" removed from the picture.

Rock did give me some ideas to get a better launch than just flooring it, other than my mis-adventure at the GTO club, I have not had an opportunity to do any real practices yet - but I am ordering one of those G-force meters which should help perfect a launch much better than just trying to time it with a stop watch - too many things to do all at once - I'm not that co-ordinated!

---Larry