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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Can't believe I'm the first one to post on the passing of the Butcher of Baghdad last night.

A moment of smirking please....:)

OK that's enough. Hope he finds a few thousand angry victims waiting for him in the promised land. I'm thinking 20 Kurdish virgins would know what to do with him for eternity.

Sadly, his death will likely not hasten our withdrawal from Iraq. There will no doubt be the momentary last hurrah from Baath party loyalists. And then, the brotherhood if Islam will get back to killing one another in earnest.

Would these jokers even notice if we quietly slipped away?

Seriously, I hope this is a small step forward for the average Iraqi who just wants to fall in love, raise a family, and have a decent life. Unfortunately, Saddam was only a symptom of a much much larger problem in these wannabe theocracies run by zealots who are certain they know exactly how you should live your life.

I'll say it again....the single greatest idea embedded in our constitution is separation of church and state. Our forefathers were witness to hundreds of years of religious persecution in Europe.....and they paid attention!!!
 

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Can't believe I'm the first one to post on the passing of the Butcher of Baghdad last night.

A moment of smirking please....:)

OK that's enough. Hope he finds a few thousand angry victims waiting for him in the promised land. I'm thinking 20 Kurdish virgins would know what to do with him for eternity.

Sadly, his death will likely not hasten our withdrawal from Iraq. Their will no doubt be the momentary last hurrah from Baath party loyalists. And then, the brotherhood if Islam will get back to killing one another in earnest.

Would these jokers even notice if we quietly slipped away?

Seriously, I hope this is a small step forward for the average Iraqi who just wants to fall in love, raise a family, and have a decent life. Unfortunately, Saddam was only a symptom of a much much larger problem in these wannabe theocracies run by zealots who are certain they know exactly how you should live your life.

I'll say it again....the single greatest idea embedded in our constitution is separation of church and state. Our forefathers were witness to hundreds of years of religious persecution in Europe.....and they paid attention!!!

I wonder why Al Sharpton didn't deliver The Butcher of Baghdad's eulogy.
 

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Can't believe I'm the first one to post on the passing of the Butcher of Baghdad last night.

A moment of smirking please....:)

OK that's enough. Hope he finds a few thousand angry victims waiting for him in the promised land. I'm thinking 20 Kurdish virgins would know what to do with him for eternity.

Sadly, his death will likely not hasten our withdrawal from Iraq. There will no doubt be the momentary last hurrah from Baath party loyalists. And then, the brotherhood if Islam will get back to killing one another in earnest.

Would these jokers even notice if we quietly slipped away?

Seriously, I hope this is a small step forward for the average Iraqi who just wants to fall in love, raise a family, and have a decent life. Unfortunately, Saddam was only a symptom of a much much larger problem in these wannabe theocracies run by zealots who are certain they know exactly how you should live your life.

I'll say it again....the single greatest idea embedded in our constitution is separation of church and state. Our forefathers were witness to hundreds of years of religious persecution in Europe.....and they paid attention!!!
Amen to that! It is the greatest document ever written. Brilliant beyond all imagination. Too bad we step all over it.
 

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Can't believe I'm the first one to post on the passing of the Butcher of Baghdad last night.

I'll say it again....the single greatest idea embedded in our constitution is separation of church and state. Our forefathers were witness to hundreds of years of religious persecution in Europe.....and they paid attention!!!
I agree, in theory. The fact is though that this country was founded on Christian principles, yet we can not have prayer in schools because it may offend a Buddhist, some other towel head, atheists, you get the idea.

It's such a paradox. Our currency states "In God We Trust" yet we don't.

Now, don't get the idea I'm a bible thumper. Just grew up in a time that had religious education in public schools, the kids could carry jack knives to school, and we never, ever had kids shooting kids.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I agree, in theory. The fact is though that this country was founded on Christian principles, yet we can not have prayer in schools because it may offend a Buddhist, some other towel head, atheists, you get the idea.

It's such a paradox. Our currency states "In God We Trust" yet we don't.

Now, don't get the idea I'm a bible thumper. Just grew up in a time that had religious education in public schools, the kids could carry jack knives to school, and we never, ever had kids shooting kids.
I hear ya. There's nothing wrong with the concept of (any) religion or the values they can teach. It's the greedy power hungry people who hijack it to further their own goals that the constitution aims to protect us from. Where there is power, there is danger. We can vote our politicians out of office under the constitution. It's much harder to get rid of a King, a deity, or the deity's self-proclaimed mouthpiece. And zealots don't generally leave much room for dissenting opinions or intellectual discourse.

Like you, I am an old(er) fart. My father and grandfather were cabinetmakers and finish carpenters. I've carried a pocket knife since I was eight years old. I was taught to hone it by hand until you could shave the hair off your forearm like a razor. I use it every day and it never once occured to me to stab someone with it. It feels weird when I have to travel and put it in checked baggage or leave it at home. But, such is the world we live in.

There were kids shooting kids in my day but they were poor, black, and living in urban ghettos. With little hope for a better future and no way to make a living, it's easy to see where that violence came from. Now, we have a completely new breed of morally bankrupt youth. The well to do suburban white kids who carefully plan out attacks with automatic weapons on innocent people. Definitely a step back. In a couple hundred years, we may qualify for citizenship in the middle east.
 

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For all you hardcore folks here is a link to some footage of the entire
hanging. Word of caution, it's the real thing so don't watch it if
you think you can't handle it. Quality is not the best. Surely someone
had a nice video camera at that event you would think!

http://www.ls2gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126125

http://www.break.com/index/graphic_saddam_hussein_hanging_video.html
I'm definitely not hardcore and I usually pass on this kind of thing, but it didn't bother me a bit to watch this. I wish the media would broadcast it for the entire world to see. They sure don't mind airing videos of innocent hostages bound and blindfolded, or videos of Bin Ladin and the like spouting their latest garbage. The filthy bastards who kidnap and behead Americans don't mind showing a video or two of their handiwork either. Hussein deserved a lot worse than what he got. I hope Al Jazeera aired it live.
 

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AMAZING....... They can operate grenade launchers, machetes, land mines, and other killing devises, with precision but they cannot operate a friggin Video recorder. Just amazing.

In the mideast it's common place to have public beheadings, executions etc. It's used as a deterrent to people who commit crimes. Here we have appeals. Best 1 out of 3 to determine your ultimate fate.

The crime rates over there are so much lower than ours. Barbaric? Perhaps. Does it work? It's been shown to. I've seen just as graphic.... ok, almost as graphic videos on news channels.

Our censorship at times is so extreme. They feel they are shielding people from gross footage. What was censored 30 years ago is expected today. Anything less doesn't sell. Remember in the 60's it was too hardcore to show (on TV) people in the same bed. Example... The Dick Vandyke Show. Always in separate beds. Well, times have changed. In the not so distant future you'll be seeing this on T.V. as common as some of the trash T.V. we have now.

It has to be commercialized first. Rights have to be sold. In the near future you'll be able to get Pay per view, or HBO for executions. Just as soon as money is to be made. Watch and see. Right now we haven't "evolved" to this. But we've evolved to other atrocities. 30 years ago Bullfights were on T.V. they've been outlawed. Once a way is devised to make millions of dollars commercializing this type of "entertainment" the cable companies will have the>>>>>>> Execution Network.
 

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Good ole American censorship...

...Once a way is devised to make millions of dollars commercializing this type of "entertainment" the cable companies will have the>>>>>>> Execution Network.
:agree GTO JUDGE & Kegbelly. In Europe, you see nudity on commercials. Especially females, soaps and lotions and things. Breasts, cheeks, nipples, you name it. Children there grow up seeing the naked human body as a think of beauty and normal. God bless the Birthday suit! Also on the news channels, much more graphic than ours. Even routine stuff like wrecks and fires and stuff. You see the real deal. Charred remains, blood pools, whatever. Now I do remember telling my children to close their eyes at times, But it was usually only for war footage from Iraq that was disturbing to me as well.
We live in a hypocritical society..."Shield us from what a real dead person looks like, but Hollywood can show us bodies mutilated everywhich way imaginable, and atrocities unimaginable, with no problem! Just give it an "R" rating (or PG-13) and you're golden. I guess my only point is this, there is only so much 'shielding from the real world' that can be done. I think if our media got into the habit of showing the real results of a headon collision caused by a drunk driver, or violent crime, things might change here a little bit. But as it stands right now, its a fantasy for most Americans. Very few Americans have seen these common occurrences that I mentioned, because the end result is censored from our media. You need to go buy the movie to get the 'rest of the story'. JMHO...And no, I didn't find the video offensive. But I too am a product of our society so I figured I'd post a warning. Do I consider myself 'hardcore'? No. A realist? Yes. Whew...I'm done. Pardon the tangent I went off on. Happy New Year everyone!
 

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I saw the cell-phone video of the execution… WHO THE HELL IS RUNNING THINGS OVER THERE?!

My dad had an old saying, “Screwing-up by the numbers”

That’s exactly what’s happening over there… every step of the way is one big cluster****…

Saddam’s death is deserving but how this was handled will most certainly draw Iraq closer to civil war… if not into civil war…

You will see violence and death rise sharply in Iraq after this retarded handling of an execution… Which means more dead US troops… LOTS MORE!

Is this another one of those, “who would’ve thought this would happen?” excuses in Iraq?

It’s called Lack of Foresight… Our jails are filled with idiots like this… These are the types that rack-up huge debt beyond belief… and these are the types that have been running our Iraq policies… Doing things on the fly with no foresight of their actions…

Accountability? Why start now? We’re on a roll!

You would think America is smarter than this...
 

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I saw the cell-phone video of the execution… WHO THE HELL IS RUNNING THINGS OVER THERE?!

My dad had an old saying, “Screwing-up by the numbers”

That’s exactly what’s happening over there… every step of the way is one big cluster****…

Saddam’s death is deserving but how this was handled will most certainly draw Iraq closer to civil war… if not into civil war…

You will see violence and death rise sharply in Iraq after this retarded handling of an execution… Which means more dead US troops… LOTS MORE!

Is this another one of those, “who would’ve thought this would happen?” excuses in Iraq?

It’s called Lack of Foresight… Our jails are filled with idiots like this… These are the types that rack-up huge debt beyond belief… and these are the types that have been running our Iraq policies… Doing things on the fly with no foresight of their actions…

Accountability? Why start now? We’re on a roll!

You would think America is smarter than this...

If you look at the way of life in the Middle East, for the MOST PART they are still living like our ancestors did in the stone age. Their brand of justice is much different than ours. We view it as somewhat barbaric and inhumane but to them it's a normal way of life.

I don't think anyone can say they witnessed a public beheading in Dallas Texas. Or your neighbor trading his daughter for 6 goats. But over there it's the norm. Rioting in the streets, shooting of guns etc. That region has truly NOT evolved to the century they are in. Oh the Leaders have, but the oppression of the people...this is all they know.

(What's really scary is people living in mud huts, wearing togas, and sandals causing the carnage they are doing around the world.)

It's their brand of justice. Anything less than we have is viewed as uncivilized. Turn your T.V. on and look at it. We are hated, but we are the more civilized trying to make things better for them. They will never evolve no matter how we try and ram it down their throats.

Security? They have no security. The way the execution was carried out is just a reflection of how things are really done over there. To be surprised it would be more civilized would be not the norm there.
 

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Iraq was far more civilized than you give them credit for... Universities, doctors, engineers, etc... They lived life oppressed but they did have laws and very few broke them... for good reason...

Saddam was not executed by his peers, he was executed by his political enemies. That's the problem...
If the goal was to escalate retaliatory attacks then this did it...
 

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Iraq was far more civilized than you give them credit for... Universities, doctors, engineers, etc... They lived life oppressed but they did have laws and very few broke them... for good reason...

Saddam was not executed by his peers, he was executed by his political enemies. That's the problem...
If the goal was to escalate retaliatory attacks then this did it...
I said the Mid East as a whole. Yea they have universities, hospitals, doctors, ak47's and other up to date weapons like all countries, but they also stood out in the streets firing automatic weapons in the air and still trade people for livestock. Their leader demonstrated it time and time again. I never ever seen our presidents or Britain, Canada, etc leaders firing weapons in the air while giving speeches.

They also live in mud and straw huts. The leaders live in the time, it's the people as a whole who live like our ancestors did in this age.

His peers are an example of what I described.

When you are oppressed, you'll never evolve.

I don't think they needed a reason to escalate their attacks. Everything that happens from this point on will be blamed on the execution.
 

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The reason why we are where we are is that we refuse to understand their culture and the geo-politics in the region. You can blame their problems on being “uncivilized” … For the educated, we know better… I personally knew our invasion and subsequent occupation would turn into this kind of violence… It wasn’t just me… “Think Tanks” from all over the world warned of the possible pitfalls from trying to occupy Iraq… Even Bush Sr realized this…

We didn’t go into Iraq to bring them democracy. That was NOT the bill of goods we were sold. We were told things that they (our leaders) knew were not true.

The legitimacy of the war, or lack of, has put the US at a severe disadvantage in doing anything positive there. Iraqis don’t trust us.. The middle east as a whole doesn’t trust us.. Iran is living with the fear of being next to be occupied and are pursuing nuclear weapons to gain an advantage… Why should they trust us when we say “Disarm or prepare for war”… Iran laughs at us as we are literally bogged down in Iraq and impotent to make any real threats to our real enemies…

The Iraq war has had serious side affect to our foreign policies and none of which are good…

The handling of Saddam’s execution is yet another example of perpetual incompetence in Iraq. If we wanted to convey legitimacy in the execution then it would’ve been done by his peers, not seemingly exclusive by his enemies as shown in that cell phone video…

Blaming the problems in Iraq on Iraqis being primitive or sub-human is blatantly ignorant. The war has brought destruction and death to their country that you will never understand. It is numbing to see the numbers role in on a daily basis… Another day, another 100 Iraqis killed… They’re just Iraqis… not like they are civilized or anything…
 

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The reason why we are where we are is that we refuse to understand their culture and the geo-politics in the region. You can blame their problems on being “uncivilized” … For the educated, we know better…
Without trying to sound like too much Bill O'Riley or Saun Hannity, who I like, and who calls the "game" as it's being played....The point made was simply this.. the Mid East as a WHOLE (not just Iraq, or Iran) have not evolved to the 21st century as rest of the world has (not saying part of certain cities have not). It's a fact brought to you nightly on any news network you tune into. Call it their culture stunted in growth by the religion, and government that rule. A FEW of the Government's are intent on castrating the U.S. for it's endeavor to bring THE OPPRESSED the same opportunities as we all enjoy. Had we lost WWII, we'd be speaking German now in an East German society. As well as if we lose now to the Extremists our future generations will be speaking Arabic not English. The oppressed people know no different. They know nothing of how we live, all they know is what is shoved down their throats and they live like their kin did centuries ago. That is the point. Their Governments DO NOT want them becoming a totally free society, because it would bring down the strong armed rule which certain countries enjoy. Islam doctrine states that the entire world is to become Islamic before Mohammad comes. The MORON in Iran is trying to do this by attaining WMD. IF the extremists were to get their way and defeat the free world and rule the world as Mohammad wants, we all will regress to the level in which the way of life in the Mid East is now as a whole.
 

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Iran is an "Islamic Repupublic".

If you want to know what that means here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_republic

If anything, Iran was leading the way for the middle east to embrace democracy. It might not seem that way with the rhetoric of current president but he was democratically elected... and AFTER we invaded Iraq I maight add... The fact that they don't have a Nuke yet indicates that the Iraq war was the precipitace for them to acquire a nuke...

These are things that Bill O'Reilly won't tell you because he has his own political agenda... I have little respect for him... Let me tell you why...

Before the war I used to tell people, "Why are our leaders trying to sell us a war like a salesman trying to sell a used car? We know when we need to go to war... It's usually pretty darn obvious..." And when Americans tried to questioned or debate anything about Iraq and whether there's a real threat they were labeled "Unpatriotic" and "Un-American". O'Reilly lead the chorus of lambastic Americans as Unpatrioctic... Oreilly focused entirely on personal attacks on critics to pro-war policies. "Treason" was a word being thrown around towards critics at the time...

Arrogance, ignorance, and self-rightousness of a singular point of view, candy wrapped in the American flag and images of 9/11, overrode any real debate or logic at the time...

I think it's criminal... The damage to our country IS ENOURMOUS! Congress was fools to give the president authority to use force in Iraq as he see fit... Preemptive war should ALWAYS have the approval of congress...

Congress would not have voted for a war resolution given the lack of evidence of a threat...
 

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Iran is an "Islamic Repupublic".

If you want to know what that means here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_republic

If anything, Iran was leading the way for the middle east to embrace democracy. It might not seem that way with the rhetoric of current president but he was democratically elected... and AFTER we invaded Iraq I maight add... The fact that they don't have a Nuke yet indicates that the Iraq war was the precipitace for them to acquire a nuke...

These are things that Bill O'Reilly won't tell you because he has his own political agenda... I have little respect for him... Let me tell you why...

Before the war I used to tell people, "Why are our leaders trying to sell us a war like a salesman trying to sell a used car? We know when we need to go to war... It's usually pretty darn obvious..." And when Americans tried to questioned or debate anything about Iraq and whether there's a real threat they were labeled "Unpatriotic" and "Un-American". O'Reilly lead the chorus of lambastic Americans as Unpatrioctic... Oreilly focused entirely on personal attacks on critics to pro-war policies. "Treason" was a word being thrown around towards critics at the time...

Arrogance, ignorance, and self-rightousness of a singular point of view, candy wrapped in the American flag and images of 9/11, overrode any real debate or logic at the time...

I think it's criminal... The damage to our country IS ENOURMOUS! Congress was fools to give the president authority to use force in Iraq as he see fit... Preemptive war should ALWAYS have the approval of congress...

Congress would not have voted for a war resolution given the lack of evidence of a threat...

I appreciate your insite. You do sound Secular Progressive though. Bill O'Reily scares the hell out of the S-P's.

King Bush the 1st knows what he's doin. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rolleyes:

Let's see what happens in Iran IF Adolph Dumbdementajad is defeated in the next election. If he wins re election then we will know the people of Iran truly believe in HIS agenda.
 
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