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In a previous post I noted the troubles Toyota has had with having to recall cars. That was one car from every model it made for year 2006. Also in 2005 they recalled more trucks than Ford, if you can believe that.

I got my Car & Driver for Feb 2007 and there is an article on six family four doors. They tested the Chrysler Sebring, Toyota Camry, Kia Optima, Nissan Altima, Saturn Aura, and the Honda Accord. They used 4cyl automatics for this test, since that is the way most are sold, the Saturn had a 6 since that is the only way it comes.

Chrysler Sebring was 6th. This was mostly due to it being designed for the AARP crowd.
Toyota Camry took 5th. Car & Driver put it this way, "Toyota sedans have never throbbed with passion, but at least they could boast of unimpeachable quality. This Camry was impeachable. A few trim pieces hung loose. Some dash panels didn't match up. The rear seat cup holder fell out with only the slightest persuasion, leaving behind a ragged hole in the fabric. If fit and finish ceases to be Toyota's obsession, what will define the company's products? We shudder to imagine. "

The Saturn 4th, Kia 3rd, Nissan 2nd and the Accord won.

Toyota is in the same place GM was going into the 80's. They are the marque to beat, and they are starting to beat themselves.
 

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I'll consider Toyota better than ford when the start production on a supra again or even a decent mr2....aAaActually.....no I wouldn't
 

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Toyota has been in the forefront of quality for a long period of time. Like it or not that's a fact.

Jap cars, and quality have been maligned since their beginning when their quality was poor. The Jap vision was not to gain overnight success but to build on it and provide a high quality product that would in time provide a superior product. Americans in general want what they want NOW, and worry about next year later. We are not a society that wants to wait for anything. Instant gratification is our way of life. This is the predicament many people fall in to i.e. credit cards. The I want it now but will pay for it later mentality has many people in debt up to their eyeballs. Toyota built a reputation that IS associated with quality and this did not happen overnight.

Many people hate Jap cars cause dad did. They grew up in a house where Rice burners were to blame for everything from auto workers being laid off, to loss of market share for automakers, to poor american made cars, and trucks. There is a reason for gains in market share, most of it is quality. What's funny is Toyota has been and is still building plants in the U.S. where their product is being built by Americans but still the rice burner nametag persists. Yeah Toyota is based in Japan, but most of everything anyone buys is based outside the U.S.A. anymore.

Harley Davidson boasted about their 100% MADE IN AMERICA pride. Their bolts come, or did come from Japan. :rolleyes: They were exposed by a news magazine when the big anti Japanese campaign was going on.

There is a distinct hatred for Japanese cars, particularly Toyota. Why? Toyota is a threat, (the biggest threat) we all hate threats, and view a threat as an enemy force. GM has seen Toyota advancing on their market share but they failed to stop it despite Toyota's recalls which EVERY auto manufacturer goes through at one time or another, particularly FORD who is notorious for recalls.

What got me sold on Toyota quality started when I got a 1974 Hilux pick-up, 10th owner and it was beat. It ran like a champ never a problem. Traded it for a 1983 Toyota pick up. I drove that off the lot and returned 5 yrs later with NOT ONE Warranty claim or other service problem. I traded that on a 1988 4 Runner 4x4 which I still have. The only thing that ever took other than normal maintenance was a head gasket. It has 99 K miles on it and runs like new. This is my quality experience with Toyota. With a track record of what I described why would I NOT consider another Toyota? Multiply that by millions of satisfied customers and it's not hard to realize why Toyota has become number 1. The only blame I can put on Toyota is blaming them for high quality.

Hate what I wrote, argue about it, or despise it, the fact is you cannot discount Toyota's track record. It got them the number 1 spot. Toyota is building their full size Tundra's in Texas, American Built. Many other of their cars are built in the U.S.A. now. Do we dare blame the recalls on products built on American soil, or labor? After all, when all Toyota's were built in Japan, rarely was their a recall. Most recalls are for defective parts, not labor problems. This happens to all involved in assemblies of cars, trucks, lawnmowers, gas grills, etc. But when Toyota has a recall, man o days the world stops and looks to see what has happened. Despite that Toyota has become number 1.

Maybe since GM has been dethroned, perhaps this will incite them enough to regain it.

This is my thoughts on this and I'm stickin' to it.

Sorry for the long windbagged post guys my short hand is not good.:willy: :willy:
 

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I disagree GTO_Judge. Toyota themselves says they have a quality problem.

The situation has alarmed Toyota's top executives and angered the Japanese government. It ordered Toyota to explain itself, which it did in a report delivered Thursday, borne by the latest in a series of apologies by Japan's biggest auto company. In it, the company promised to create a new computer database to obtain information more quickly from dealers on repairs and complaints. Inside Toyota, the spate of recalls has triggered a flurry of high-level efforts to diagnose and fix the problems, which have afflicted everything from its treasured Prius hybrid, which has become the gold standard among fuel-efficient vehicles, to the small Tacoma pickup and even cars in its Lexus luxury lineup.


You are right that people still perceive Toyota to be a well made product. My last car was a Toyota Matrix. It rattled more than any car I've ever owned. It was my first Toyota and I was surprised by the poor build quality.

The main issue Ford and GM need to overcome is the perception quality gap. IMO, the actual quality gap has been closed.

I do think Toyota will fix there issues before it tarnishes their reputation. That is where GM and Ford failed. They took way to long to make their car better.
 

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The reason I can't stand Toyotas is because ignorant people buy them. They buy them because they think they're the "safe" buy -- and ignore the fact they're ugly, slow, brake poorly and handle like crap. And even though Toyota's quality is already in the toilet, their buyers have already concluded "Toyota good, domestic bad" and buy those awful Camrys, Corollas, Siennas etc. even when the facts tell them otherwise.

Our local newspaper's car editor bashed the GTO when it came out. Used the word "ugly" to describe it. So what's his 2006 car of the year? The Camry -- which looks like a manatee with a T logo on the tip of its snout. His truck of the year? The absolutely hideous and completely useless FJ.

Think that guy is biased toward imports and against domestic product? You tell me.
 

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Everyone has their own ideas on this topic. Coming from my experience with Toyota, I associate them OVERALL with a good quality product. Just about everything now is being made as cheaply as possible, and with it comes consequences. Toyota's problems are now surfacing.

I could slam Chevy for the poor quality Monte Carlo I had, or Dodge for the problems I had with my RAM. When I compare every vehicle I ever had: Ford, GM, and Toyota there is no comparison with Toyota's quality. But I have not purchased one since 1988.

Now my GTO, and wife's Grand-AM on the other hand, is second to none in quality. I've had 3 Pontiac's now and all have been complaint free.

I am not a big fan of Toyota, nor do I hate them. I can only speak from experience from the 3 I owned and not one complaint.
 

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I see alot of toyotas about two, three years old driving in wisconsin. It is not quality when there is no body left on the vehical after a few years of driving. my six year old sunfire with 200,000 miles on it has no rust what so ever on it. And it has a wopping 600 bucks in repairs done on it. But hey it's just a crappy GM. :willy:
 

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I disagree GTO_Judge. Toyota themselves says they have a quality problem.

The situation has alarmed Toyota's top executives and angered the Japanese government. It ordered Toyota to explain itself, which it did in a report delivered Thursday, borne by the latest in a series of apologies by Japan's biggest auto company. In it, the company promised to create a new computer database to obtain information more quickly from dealers on repairs and complaints. Inside Toyota, the spate of recalls has triggered a flurry of high-level efforts to diagnose and fix the problems, which have afflicted everything from its treasured Prius hybrid, which has become the gold standard among fuel-efficient vehicles, to the small Tacoma pickup and even cars in its Lexus luxury lineup.


You are right that people still perceive Toyota to be a well made product. My last car was a Toyota Matrix. It rattled more than any car I've ever owned. It was my first Toyota and I was surprised by the poor build quality.

The main issue Ford and GM need to overcome is the perception quality gap. IMO, the actual quality gap has been closed.

I do think Toyota will fix there issues before it tarnishes their reputation. That is where GM and Ford failed. They took way to long to make their car better.
Not that I am rooting for Toyota, but when has the American government gotten on General Motors backs about poor quality on anything? I only say this because it seems like some of these American companies need a good kick in the azz
 

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I see alot of toyotas about two, three years old driving in wisconsin. It is not quality when there is no body left on the vehical after a few years of driving. my six year old sunfire with 200,000 miles on it has no rust what so ever on it. And it has a wopping 600 bucks in repairs done on it. But hey it's just a crappy GM. :willy:
I see the same thing on GM cars too here in PA. So the problem is not limited to just Toyota. If you soak a car in salt water it's gonna skank. Living in a snow belt reeks havoc on any car. So does living on the shore line coasts. If you do not maintain upkeep expect rot. I just saw on the news Toyota is being blamed for the snow storms in Colorado.

Maybe the UAW is to blame. YEAH let's blame them. :willy: :willy: :willy: :lol: :lol:
 

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Well, I guess I'll throw my two cents in here ... (ok, my 2 bucks ... long)

I have owned, in order, a 70 skylark, a 79 starfire, an 81 caprice classic, an 83 z28, an 85 626 LX, an 86 626 GT, an 87 Hyundai Excel (ugh), a 90 geo prizm (toyota corolla), a 91 ford escort GT (mazda protege), 93 dodge shadow ES convertible, 84 Mazda B2000, 95 Sebring convertible JXi, 97 Ford Contour, 95 Mazda Millenia, 97 Mazda Millenia, 2002 Nissan Altima 3.5 SE, 89 F-150. I think I got them all ...

with the exception of the skylark, the millenias, and the pickups, they were all bought new.

Oh, and my 70 Goat ...

scroll down for cliff notes version

skylark had a premature cam shaft failure, GM had some problems with soft cams in their 350's at the time.
starfire was okay.
caprice was ok, but catalytic converter clogged with about 23K miles. GM fixed it for free (emissions warranty).
the Z was terrible ... was on a first name basis with the service managers at TWO chevy dealers in Seattle area. had a fuel delivery problem that they never could fix. i couldn't drive more than 60 miles without the car vapor locking on me. Since I had to drive across the country, I dumped it in favor of the Mazda LX(up and coming japanese quality/reliablility and economy).
Mazda LX was a great car, no problems whatsoever, and got 40.5 MPG if I set the cruise control at 60. Since I mostly cruised at close to 80 (young and stupid), I got about 32 MPG going across country. I loved that car.
missed the performance of the Z. got a 626 GT. another good car, but had a recall on the oil feed line to the turbocharger bearings being too small. unfortunately, it was too late for me, as the turbo ate itself, and I waited for 5 weeks for a turbo to come from Japan. Mazda picked up the tab.
for reasons I still can't understand, I traded it in on the excel.
Excel was a car. rock solid reliable. cheap to drive. gutless and boring.
enter the Escort. fun little pocket rocket, it too, was rock solid reliable, but not boring. I gave it up so the wife could have the shadow, and I got to drive the prizm. Prizm was a good car also, and pretty reliable. radiator developed a pinhole leak in the core at about 97K miles ... replaced the core with one from AutoZone ... problem fixed. At just over 100K, the headliner started falling down, I glued it back up. replaced the left front half shaft at about 105K (failed CV joint, boot was intact).
Shadow was ok, but I thought it was a boring car. it was reliable, though. .. we had no problems with it.
Wife wanted the new Sebring. Sharp looker. Piece of crap from day one. I'll never own another chrysler product. I think we got like 10 recalls in the two yrs we had it, and I had problems too numerous to list, in addition to the recalls.
got rid of the geo for the contour. my first FORD ford. I really liked it and had only 1 problem with it. (parking brake froze in the ON position one very cold winter) apparently I was one of the lucky ones.
got rid of contour and sebring and wife. got the 95 millenia. what a piece of crap. I was really disappointed in mazda's quality. 97 was ok ....it was a car.
got the Altima. WOW. I was impressed with the performance and as overall ok with the quality, although there were 3 recalls, numerous TSB'S and I had very poor service departments to deal with. they were arrogant and uncooperative, bordering on unprofessional. As a result, I'll probably never own another Nissan.

company cars: 98 mountaineer, 266 K miles and still runs well. needs new cats, though, so it's retired.
2000 E150'S. both around 190K and still strong, but have both eaten about 3 front ends each.
newest ... 2k6 ford escape. Just picked it up yesterday. I'm impressed with the fit and finish.

cliff notes version:

all car labels have their problems. and yes, quality is cyclical. Mazda used to have good quality in the 80's. their 90's quality was low. I hear they're better, but I don't know for sure.

my toyota product (the prizm, made at the NUMMI plant in CA) was a good car, but I noticed growing issues at around 100K

GM's quality in the 80's was in the toilet, but from what I 've seen of their more recent products, they're pretty good now (wife has a 2k6 malibu ... very good quality so far, with about 30K on it)
I'm impressed with the durability of the ford product motors. their chink in their armor, however is the front ends.

I'll never know if chrysler ever makes a good, reliable car.
 

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Toyota has been in the forefront of quality for a long period of time. Like it or not that's a fact.

Jap cars, and quality have been maligned since their beginning when their quality was poor. The Jap vision was not to gain overnight success but to build on it and provide a high quality product that would in time provide a superior product. Americans in general want what they want NOW, and worry about next year later. We are not a society that wants to wait for anything. Instant gratification is our way of life. This is the predicament many people fall in to i.e. credit cards. The I want it now but will pay for it later mentality has many people in debt up to their eyeballs. Toyota built a reputation that IS associated with quality and this did not happen overnight.

Many people hate Jap cars cause dad did. They grew up in a house where Rice burners were to blame for everything from auto workers being laid off, to loss of market share for automakers, to poor american made cars, and trucks. There is a reason for gains in market share, most of it is quality. What's funny is Toyota has been and is still building plants in the U.S. where their product is being built by Americans but still the rice burner nametag persists. Yeah Toyota is based in Japan, but most of everything anyone buys is based outside the U.S.A. anymore.

Harley Davidson boasted about their 100% MADE IN AMERICA pride. Their bolts come, or did come from Japan. :rolleyes: They were exposed by a news magazine when the big anti Japanese campaign was going on.

There is a distinct hatred for Japanese cars, particularly Toyota. Why? Toyota is a threat, (the biggest threat) we all hate threats, and view a threat as an enemy force. GM has seen Toyota advancing on their market share but they failed to stop it despite Toyota's recalls which EVERY auto manufacturer goes through at one time or another, particularly FORD who is notorious for recalls.

What got me sold on Toyota quality started when I got a 1974 Hilux pick-up, 10th owner and it was beat. It ran like a champ never a problem. Traded it for a 1983 Toyota pick up. I drove that off the lot and returned 5 yrs later with NOT ONE Warranty claim or other service problem. I traded that on a 1988 4 Runner 4x4 which I still have. The only thing that ever took other than normal maintenance was a head gasket. It has 99 K miles on it and runs like new. This is my quality experience with Toyota. With a track record of what I described why would I NOT consider another Toyota? Multiply that by millions of satisfied customers and it's not hard to realize why Toyota has become number 1. The only blame I can put on Toyota is blaming them for high quality.

Hate what I wrote, argue about it, or despise it, the fact is you cannot discount Toyota's track record. It got them the number 1 spot. Toyota is building their full size Tundra's in Texas, American Built. Many other of their cars are built in the U.S.A. now. Do we dare blame the recalls on products built on American soil, or labor? After all, when all Toyota's were built in Japan, rarely was their a recall. Most recalls are for defective parts, not labor problems. This happens to all involved in assemblies of cars, trucks, lawnmowers, gas grills, etc. But when Toyota has a recall, man o days the world stops and looks to see what has happened. Despite that Toyota has become number 1.

Maybe since GM has been dethroned, perhaps this will incite them enough to regain it.

This is my thoughts on this and I'm stickin' to it.

Sorry for the long windbagged post guys my short hand is not good.:willy: :willy:

Having worked for Toyota in Japan for six years I have a solid uderstanding of the company and its products. They make a solid if blah car, nothing to write home about but dependable pedestrian transportation. They do emply great lawyers and PR people though. Six Pintos or so exploded on rear impact (of over a million sold), but yet until recently few Jap cars were deemed safe. Toyota made a winner called the Starlet, people got killed in it by being hit in parking lots. Then the 3 wheelers killed and crippled thousands but the cases haven't made it to court after twenty years and so on (mostly Suzuki and Yamaha). The problem is people here don't compare dollar for dollar or they'd all buy domestic. I did own a Toyota once, a Supra. Nice drivetrain but the seats lacked UV protection and dry rotted, suspension wore out at 25K cluct at 30K. Seals leaked and the AC never cooled properly. Stay tuned and I'll tell you about my Masters Thesis.
 

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Shame Factor

I took several hundred self-addressed questionaires to a Honda and a Pontiac dealership in Houston. The only people who got them had a warranty claim. The totals were fairly close (Honda and Pontiac claims) and could have been a bad light bulb or defective engine, I didn't know the failure just that they had one.
I got back over 90% of the Pontiac mailings, 60%+ of the Honda. Almost everyone of the POntiac returns said they had an issue but less than 50% of the Hondas admitted to having a problem, yet no one got the form that had not had a problem!!!!!
I call it the shame factor (1 foreign car = 4 lost US jobs, do the math). If you get a better deal buy it. Problem is if you really compare a $20,000 US car to a $20,000 Toyota for instance you'll find you're getting much more with the US car.
The US had problems between the late 70's and mid-80's but today our products are just as good as anyone elses. Take the GTO, it is very close to an M5 for twenty grand less and for a lot less than 20 G's you can make it better in every way to the BMW.
The only mass produced sports car the Japs have ever made I can't find fault with (I could but not for the price they charged, interiors being one problem area) were the original 240 and 280 Z's (260's were not any good). Biggest problem is the news media and mags kow tow to the Japs and Germans. I remember an article comparing a Vette to an RX7. Vette blew the Mazda off across the board and got 18-19 mpg. The RX7 only got 15 mpg but they called the Vette a gas hog. And you wonder why people are confused. Toyota better than a GM, don't think so.
 

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Sure they have...... You don't recall the K car?????????? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :eek: :eek:
I do remember the Duster, Challenger/Cuda, 300, and rock solid trucks. K car was a econo box. Scared the Japs though, they put a 85% tariff on it in the 80's. Chrysler did market the components in a mini van that made history and saved the company. By the way we placed a 2.75% on their products. I always thought they paid out better bribes.
 
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