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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I've been lurking the past few days after finding this site while trying to dig up some info on my car. I own the car pictured below an will likely begin working on it in the coming fall (I'm presently trying to finish up a '50 chevy pickup). My mother ordered this car from a local dealer in '64 and we've had it ever since. In '84 it was side swiped pretty badly (drivers side door and quarter) and then stuck in an old shed in hopes of someday finding a donor car. Of course 26 years later it needs a little more than just a new side now, but I did find a donor car. A GTO of all things.

Anyway, I plan on sticking around and asking questions here and there, but I had one major question. Is it ok that "It's only a LeMans" and doesn't have the quintessential three little letters attached to it?

 

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Just a LeMans is the same as saying just a GTO!! You do know the 64 & 65's GTO's were options on the LeMans. So Car is LeMans first GTO 2nd. The GTOAA even as a LeMans class at the National Conventions. Welcome to the forum and ask away!!!!!!!:cheersLes
 

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+1 if there were no Tempest/Lemans there would be no GTO. and restoring it gives you a few more liberties to modify it without effecting the value drastically as in a numbers GTO. I Like that we are seening more lemans and Tempest restored instead of becoming parts cars, from what i can tell they seem to be the rarer car these days. A GTO in the original barn find condition my Tempest was in when i got it would have cost me 4 times as much. Out with the 326 in with the 462....lol, "Just a Tempest!!!!" Welcome to the forum, you will find lottsa help and encouragement here...:cheers

and they will know when they see you coming that it "just an old PONTIAC" and that alone should strike fear into them.

1966 Tempest pictures by instg8ter - Photobucket

Brian
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well good. I figured an eyebrow or two would raise when I said I was going to cut up a GTO optioned car to save a LeMans.

Although, only three of you have replied. I'm sure there are still a few out there thinking "WHAT???". :eek:

Thanks for the welcome.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'm in Southern Idaho. High desert country similar to Nevada, so it's very dry. There is zero rust on the LeMans, and the parts car consists of only a shell sitting on a blank frame, with no title.

The parts car frame has the rear end (which I am keeping but I still don't know the numbers for it yet) and power steering stuff and nothing else. I simply need the door post out off it and that's all.

Thankfully, I have a great body guy who has gone over both cars making sure I have everything I need to get started. Thanks though!
 

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Anyway, I plan on sticking around and asking questions here and there, but I had one major question. Is it ok that "It's only a LeMans" and doesn't have the quintessential three little letters attached to it?
Welcome! Yeah, sorry - no value at all in a Lemans. You need to get rid of it asap ---- soon as I get my trailer hooked up I'll be happy to help you with that, where exactly are you again? :D

Seriously --- good luck. When you get ready to build a motor for it, give a holler on here to Mr. P-Body. The man knoweth much of that about which he speaketh.


Bear
 

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My Tempest came outta Idaho near Boise, most of what i thought was rust on the frame was caked red dust from 35 years sitting in a carport, no rust on the body and pans am doing body now, so glad i dont have to deal with panel patches and replacement, ironing out the waves from a run away jack inside the trunk has been work enough for me. Buddy uses a two by six and L shaped threaded rod to pull out dents like that, coolest trick, welds them to the ridge line every few inches then cuts 2x6 wide enough to bridge to the good non dented panels at each side, drills for the rods then uses a nut and washer on every rod to pop the panel back have seen him repair some major cave ins that way. Necessity is the mother of invention. keep us posted
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I am just outside of Boise, 20 minutes West in Nampa.

My plans are to get it back on the road in full stock trim for now. It's a 2 barrel 326 with a 3 speed and power steering. No other important options. Montero red with parchment interior, as you can see. Once I get the body damage taken care of and restore the interior it should be good to go. There is nothing wrong with the engine other than it needing to be gone through and freshened back up.

Then, over time, I'm going to start collecting parts. I want a 400 (and would buy one at any time actually) in it, I'll likely use the factory 12 bolt rear end out of my donor car for it, and any other suspension goodies that grab my attention.

First things first though, finding out everything I need to get it back on the road, where to get it, and make sure I go about doing it right.

I'll put some other pics up later today.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Dang, those are some nice numbers. Mind if I ask roughly how much extra green is involved?


Here are a couple more shots of the side that I'm not particularly proud of at the moment. I still need to find and buy a drivers side door.




 

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Dang, those are some nice numbers. Mind if I ask roughly how much extra green is involved?
It's not as bad as you might think. 400 to 461 stroker kits are available from numerous sources. The rest of my combo consists of a mild to moderate solid roller cam, headers, and an 800 cfm Qjet on a factory intake. My heads are a little out of the norm because I was fortunate enough to find (and pay through the nose for) a set of real Ram Air IV's many years ago. Actually though, a good set of aftermarket aluminum heads would probably out-perform what I have. I just like the "cool" factor of the IV's.
When you get ready to get into it more, I recommend getting with Jim Lehart of Central Virginia Machine Services (Mr. P-Body on this forum). He knows how to help you meet your goals within whatever budget you have. I got my rotating assembly, valve train, and a bunch of other stuff through hiim. There are some videos of it running here.

Bear
 

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I like everything but the redline. I am guessing that's an engine dyno?
Yes, it was on an engine dyno. I'm quite happy with the "redline" myself. This motor makes all of it's torque squarely in the RPM range where it's going to spend the vast majority of its time - it's a pump gas street motor. If I'd been trying to build a race motor, it would have had a much "bigger" cam, more port flow in the heads, more compression, forged crank, and a single plane intake with a larger cfm carb. All of which would have been pretty much useless on the street.

Bear
 

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Discussion Starter #17
How difficult is it to find a 400, and probably a bigger question, how do you go about shipping an engine if you don't find one within your part of the country? Is it even worth trying to ship one that you may have found on craigslist or something?
 

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They're not hard to find. You should find a plethora of them in your local salvage yard. If you're going to build a stroker out of it the main thing you care about is the condition of the block, and perhaps the heads depending on the level of build you're planning. I don't know how expensive it is to ship engines, but you shouldn't have to resort to that just to acquire your base components. Another alternative would be to just buy one ready to go (crate motor) from any of the multiple vendors out there. If it were me and I was going to go that route, I'd ask Jim at CVMS to find me a good 400 "core" local to him and build me one of his "400 Pontiac Restoration" engines as a 461 and ship it to me.

He has customers overseas in the Netherlands who have had him build their engines and shipped them both ways - think about that for a bit.

Bear
 

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Yes, it was on an engine dyno. I'm quite happy with the "redline" myself. This motor makes all of it's torque squarely in the RPM range where it's going to spend the vast majority of its time - it's a pump gas street motor. If I'd been trying to build a race motor, it would have had a much "bigger" cam, more port flow in the heads, more compression, forged crank, and a single plane intake with a larger cfm carb. All of which would have been pretty much useless on the street.

Bear
I'm just used to my LS1, I shift at 6800 rpm.
 

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I'm just used to my LS1, I shift at 6800 rpm.
Ah, well there you go. Pontiacs are vastly different from Chevys :D While most Chevy guys (both BBC and SBC) worry signficantly (and with good reason) about how to get enough low end torque out of their engines to get a decent launch, we don't have that problem. Chevy guys usually have to resort to wicked low gearing and/or torque converters with stall speeds so high that they aren't really streetable to allow them to get up into the rpm range where they start making torque. On the other hand, Pontiac guys tend to struggle with how to get their cars to hook because all that bottom end tends to blow the tires clean off the car. Some resort to things like running single plane manifolds, not because they work better, but because they take some of the bottom end out of the car.

Take my GTO for instance. I used Performance Trends Engine Analyzer program to model my engine, and what the motor actually ran on the dyno tracked VERY closely with what the program predicted, so I'm assuming at this point that their Drag Race simulator will be reasonably close as well. The car is not "done" yet so I don't know for sure, but given the torque/power curve and vehicle weight, Performance Trends Drag Race Analyzer simulation program is predicting mid to upper 11's on drag radials, mid to low 11's on slicks -- and that's with a very streetable 3.50 rear gear and 3200 rpm stall converter, shifting at about 5500 rpm.

Bear
 
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