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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone know the actual residual values, money factors, and so on with the '05 GTO? There doesn't seem to be much information on it besides the SmartBuy program. For those of you that leased, would you mind sharing your numbers with us? i.e.

Purchase Price:
Cap Cost Reduction:
Residual % or value:
Money Factor or Interest Rate:
Monthly Payment:
Miles/year:

Thanks in advance. I think this will be helpful for newbies like myself that are searching the forums for lease information and there really isn't much out there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
sboylan said:
Living in New York I believe your only option is Smartbuy...
I think you are correct, but some companies still lease. I know that BMW still leases and so does Acura. Other than that, I am not sure. Heck, it would be great to know how the smartbuy payment is derived and what people are paying on that. On the Pontiac site, when you estimate payments, they show a 48 month Smart buy (I don't want to go that long) with a MSRP purchase price and $1700 out the door for $437.63. I am thinking I would go for 36 months with absolutely nothing down, but I would hope the price owuld be a lot better than MSRP (assuming $31.5 for a 6M). Hopefully, that can get it into the high $300 range. I am looking to lower my payments on my car in order for my wife to get the car she wants. If I get high 300's, my payment will b about $100 cheaper than my current car and we can pick up the loaded Acura TL as the second car.....(ramblings)
 

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D_Nyholm said:
I think you are correct, but some companies still lease. I know that BMW still leases and so does Acura.
A Smartbuy is not much different then a "lease", they just transfer ownership to you rather than keeping the title in the dealer's name.

BMW does not "lease" in NY. They call it BMW Select, which is their version of a Smartbuy.
 

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If you are going to use the buypower calculators to compute a payment in NY, reduce the price of the car to what you expect to pay.

THEN add the sales tax on the bottom line price, the rebates, the GM card money to the price of the car.

Put that number in as the price of the car, adjust the interest rate if you can, and you will get your figure.

remember, with smartbuy you make 35 payments on a 36 month plan, 47 on a 48 month etc.

In NY your only choice with GM is smartbuy, no leases.

The difference is the title, AND the sales tax. With a lease you only pay tax on the portion of the car you use - which means you dont pay tax on the residual. with smartbuy you buy the whole car, so you pay tax on the residual. Think NYS is anxious to change the vicarious liability law so companies start leasing again? The only reason the payments stayed stable over the last few years is because interest rates went down.
 

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Tom said:
If you are going to use the buypower calculators to compute a payment in NY, reduce the price of the car to what you expect to pay.

THEN add the sales tax on the bottom line price, the rebates, the GM card money to the price of the car.

Put that number in as the price of the car, adjust the interest rate if you can, and you will get your figure.

remember, with smartbuy you make 35 payments on a 36 month plan, 47 on a 48 month etc.

In NY your only choice with GM is smartbuy, no leases.

The difference is the title, AND the sales tax. With a lease you only pay tax on the portion of the car you use - which means you dont pay tax on the residual. with smartbuy you buy the whole car, so you pay tax on the residual. Think NYS is anxious to change the vicarious liability law so companies start leasing again? The only reason the payments stayed stable over the last few years is because interest rates went down.

Actually, I thought you only pay tax on what you pay monthly. If you choose to pay the final lump sum (that includes the rest of the tax not payed yet), only then will you pay tax on the whole selling price of the car. If you choose to turn the vehicle in (rather than paying the balloon) you do not pay the tax on the rest of the car, only the payments you've made over X amount of months.
 

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djdub said:
Actually, I thought you only pay tax on what you pay monthly. If you choose to pay the final lump sum (that includes the rest of the tax not payed yet), only then will you pay tax on the whole selling price of the car. If you choose to turn the vehicle in (rather than paying the balloon) you do not pay the tax on the rest of the car, only the payments you've made over X amount of months.
What you described is a lease. With a smartbuy the buyout/balloon is the amount you need to cough up since you already paid tax on it.

When smartbuy first came out my buddy bought a small blazer using smartbuy. they were offering an extra say 500 if you bought and the interest was maybe a point lower than leaseing so it was cheaper to buy the truck. which was stolen a few months later!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hmm, interesting. Too bad GM screwed up the smartbuy so much that when yesterday, the payments were $437, and today there are at $600+.. :( :eek:
 

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Tom said:
What you described is a lease. With a smartbuy the buyout/balloon is the amount you need to cough up since you already paid tax on it.

When smartbuy first came out my buddy bought a small blazer using smartbuy. they were offering an extra say 500 if you bought and the interest was maybe a point lower than leaseing so it was cheaper to buy the truck. which was stolen a few months later!!
I still think the only difference btween a lease and a Smartbuy is the transfer of ownership. My GTO is a Smartbuy and I didn't pay 8.25% sales tax on $30K.
 

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djdub said:
I still think the only difference btween a lease and a Smartbuy is the transfer of ownership. My GTO is a Smartbuy and I didn't pay 8.25% sales tax on $30K.
check your papers. if you didnt, someone screwed up.

In NY you pay tax on the residual, the rebates and the gm card money.

I paid tax on 31,400 at 8.75% or 2747.5. they knocked off the 5500 rebate, a 500 coupon, and 5018 of gmcard earnings. bottom line 23196.

I got 12800 knocked off the 33200 sticker, or got the car for 20,400 but paid 23196. the math is a littleoff becaude ther is 67.50 of state fees & a title processing fee.

I paid sales 964 in sales tax on the 11018 of coupon, rebate and gm card earnings. I didnt pay tax on the 1800 he knocked off sticker to get to "tissue".

I paid 1626 in sales tax on the 18586.4 residual/buyout

I paid 158 in sales tax on the 1814 difference between the purchase price after rebates and the residual/buyout.

Go figure

I am paying 6965 to use the car for three years. 1814 is capital cost, 2747 is tax, and about 2403 interest over the three years. Scary that the tax is the highest and the capital cost is the lowest.
 

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Tom said:
check your papers. if you didnt, someone screwed up.

In NY you pay tax on the residual, the rebates and the gm card money.

I paid tax on 31,400 at 8.75% or 2747.5. they knocked off the 5500 rebate, a 500 coupon, and 5018 of gmcard earnings. bottom line 23196.

I got 12800 knocked off the 33200 sticker, or got the car for 20,400 but paid 23196. the math is a littleoff becaude ther is 67.50 of state fees & a title processing fee.

I paid sales 964 in sales tax on the 11018 of coupon, rebate and gm card earnings. I didnt pay tax on the 1800 he knocked off sticker to get to "tissue".

I paid 1626 in sales tax on the 18586.4 residual/buyout

I paid 158 in sales tax on the 1814 difference between the purchase price after rebates and the residual/buyout.

Go figure

I am paying 6965 to use the car for three years. 1814 is capital cost, 2747 is tax, and about 2403 interest over the three years. Scary that the tax is the highest and the capital cost is the lowest.

My sales tax is added to my monthly payments. Payments of $465 + 8.25% = $503 (my monthly payment for 47 months). The final 48th payment of $16,166 + 8.25% = $17,501 (or the final payment to buy out the car). So I don't pay sales tax on the full amount, unless I choose to buy out the vehicle at the end of the Smartbuy. You can't be charged sales tax on money you will not or have not spent.

In other words...
I paid about $31,500 for the car + 8.25% = $34,098 + $7000 in neg. equity = $41,098 - $17,501 (48th payment including 8.25% sales tax) = $23,597/47 = $503 (my monthly payments).

I have a friend/coworker who just did a Smartbuy on a Rendevous and he isn't paying sales tax on the full amount in his monthly paymnets either.
 

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Here is an article from NYSTLA's website (NYS Trial Lawyers Assn)

Buying a car? Consider “Balloon Financing” Instead of Leasing
Last year, GM, Ford and Honda suspended leasing vehicles in New York State. They did this to pressure state lawmakers into repealing a long-standing law that makes sure that car owners are ultimately responsible for their car if it is involved in an accident that hurts others.

Fortunately for consumers, all three automakers now offer New Yorkers a very good leasing alternative called balloon note financing. As with leases, balloon financing plans like GM's SmartBuy and Ford's Red Carpet Option typically offer lower monthly payments than conventional financing does, allowing you to upgrade to a more expensive car.

One of the greatest attractions of either plan is that you can bring the vehicle back and simply walk away at the end of the loan term or lease without paying anything except, possibly, a "disposition fee." Or you can keep the vehicle by making a lump sum payment -- either the final, large "balloon" payment or, for leases, paying off the car's "residual value." Since both balloon plans and leases base their monthly payments on an estimate of how much the car will be worth at the end of the term -- the residual value -- consumers pay a very similar amount to keep the car under either plan.

The biggest difference between the two plans is that with balloon financing you actually own the vehicle while, when you lease, an automaker's finance arm like GMAC or an independent leasing company keeps the title. It's true that you pay sales taxes on the full value of the vehicle when you balloon finance and on only the down payment and monthly lease payments when you lease. But to ensure that they don't lose any sales by suspending leasing, the automakers are covering the difference. When all the fees and financing costs are considered, balloon financing and leasing costs about the same.
Owning a car instead of leasing it has some distinct advantages. If you are self-employed, you may be able to deduct the depreciation of the car from your taxes. If you drove it less than you expected and kept it in tip top condition, you may be able to sell the car on the market for more than the balloon payment and pocket the difference.

GM, Ford and Honda dealers report that the switch from leasing to balloon financing hasn't made any difference to their customers or in their sales volumes. As Tom Selkis, owner of Latham Ford in Albany County, told the Albany Times Union last year, "The way things are going for us, I don't care if the leasing comes back at all...We might as well stay with what we've got because it's been well-received by customers".

Leasing and balloon financing may allow drivers with beer pocketbooks to indulge their champagne tastes, but both plans have pitfalls to watch out for. For example:

• Agreements typically allow you to drive 12,000 or 15,000 miles a year before incurring excess mileage charges, which can add up quickly. At 20 cents a mile, driving 3,000 miles more than the annual limit will cost $600. Make sure you can live within the mileage limits you choose.

• If you do not keep the vehicle in tiptop condition, when you return it you may be hit with charges for wear and tear beyond what the agreement calls "normal."

• Don't get distracted by the low monthly payments trumpeted in advertising. These are bait to get you in the showroom door. You need to realistically assess the total cost of the lease or balloon note purchase, including up front costs like deposits as well as the residual value. Always negotiate starting with the purchase price of the vehicle, not the monthly fees.

• If you're leasing, be aware of the "lease acquisition fee," sometimes referred to as a "bank fee," "lease inception fee," or "administrative fee." At most leasing companies, this fee comes to hundreds of dollars and some charge more than $1,000.

• Many leases have clauses that require you to keep matching tires on the car. If you had a flat and can't replace the tire with a duplicate, you will be charged for four new matching tires at the end of the lease.

Consumers should keep in mind that leasing is still available in New York from many car dealers but should seriously consider the balloon plan as an alternative.

While the legislature debates whether or not to change the "vicarious liability" law for leasing companies, the New York State Trial Lawyers Association continues to believe that all car owners should ultimately be responsible for their property. The alternative is to leave an accident victim without access to any responsible party when the accident involves a leased car and the driver is uninsured or underinsured. With only 215 "vicarious liability" cases pending last year out of over 700,000 leases, according to trade publications, the cost to the leasing industry for this essential public protection is minimal.

Legislative Updates | Headlines | Member Resources
CLE | Discussion Groups | Consumer Section
NYSTLA Home | About NYSTLA
Legislative Action Center

© 2003 All Rights Reserved.
 

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Tom said:
But to ensure that they don't lose any sales by suspending leasing, the automakers are covering the difference. When all the fees and financing costs are considered, balloon financing and leasing costs about the same.
Then I guess they'll cover the sales tax on the balloon payment if I choose not to buy it out, becasue according to my paperwork there is sales tax included in the final 48th payment.

If you were to put down the sales tax at delivery then you would pay the full tax amount. But seeing as I put $0 down, it is worked into the the payments including the 48th payment. Even though its $17,500, it's still considered a payment, and thus has tax included like all of the other payments.
 

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djdub said:
Then I guess they'll cover the sales tax on the balloon payment if I choose not to buy it out, becasue according to my paperwork there is sales tax included in the final 48th payment.
If sales tax is included in your 48th payment, it means you already paid it by your 48th payment. so you are paying sales tax on your residual in your monthly payment. if you leased the car on the same terms your payment would have been 17000 X 8.25%/47 less each month plus interest on that #
:party:
 

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Tom said:
If sales tax is included in your 48th payment, it means you already paid it by your 48th payment. so you are paying sales tax on your residual in your monthly payment. if you leased the car on the same terms your payment would have been 17000 X 8.25%/47 less each month plus interest on that #
:party:
Huh :confused

There is 8.25% tax included on each payment (including the 48th) by the 48th payment I have payed tax on the amount I have payed in monthly payments not the selling price of the car. If I do not buy out the car than I don't pay the tax on the rest of the car. The sales tax on the 48th payment, is the tax for the rest of the selling price of the car.

Ah ****, nevermind. :willy:
 

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djdub said:
Huh :confused

There is 8.25% tax included on each payment (including the 48th) by the 48th payment I have payed tax on the amount I have payed in monthly payments not the selling price of the car. If I do not buy out the car than I don't pay the tax on the rest of the car. The sales tax on the 48th payment, is the tax for the rest of the selling price of the car.

Ah ****, nevermind. :willy:
You already paid tax on the 17000 48th month payment. with a lease you would not have paid tax on that 17000. Are we saying the same thing? If you dont buy the car, you still paid tax on the 17000, even though you didnt use that portion of the car.

read the article again. :cheers

I paid $1600 in tax on the 18686 36th payment. If I dont keep the car i give it back. if I keep the car I pay 18686, nothing more because i already paid the sales tax on it.

If i leased the car and decided to buy it at 36 months I would pay 18686 plus 1600 in sales tax.

On the bright side, if you buy another GM car, they take your GTO in trade at 17000 for you 18686 for me and reduce the purchase price of the new car by that amount when computing sales tax. Then the refinance the 17000/18686 so you dont pay sales tax twice. But that is only good at GM because otherwise you have to buy the car from GMAC for 17000 and get 17000 in trade from a honda dealer.
 

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Tom said:
You already paid tax on the 17000 48th month payment. with a lease you would not have paid tax on that 17000. Are we saying the same thing? If you dont buy the car, you still paid tax on the 17000, even though you didnt use that portion of the car.

read the article again. :cheers

I paid $1600 in tax on the 18686 36th payment. If I dont keep the car i give it back. if I keep the car I pay 18686, nothing more because i already paid the sales tax on it.

If i leased the car and decided to buy it at 36 months I would pay 18686 plus 1600 in sales tax.

On the bright side, if you buy another GM car, they take your GTO in trade at 17000 for you 18686 for me and reduce the purchase price of the new car by that amount when computing sales tax. Then the refinance the 17000/18686 so you dont pay sales tax twice. But that is only good at GM because otherwise you have to buy the car from GMAC for 17000 and get 17000 in trade from a honda dealer.
No I didn't pay tax on the 48th payment yet. I won't pay that tax until I make the 48th payment if I choose to do so.

Like I said, nevermind, lets' just agree to disagree.
 

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Fair enough.

Call GMAC and ask them how much it will cost you at the end to buy the car. if you have a smartbuy I'll bet you $5 you will have already paid the tax.

The biggest difference between the two plans is that with balloon financing you actually own the vehicle while, when you lease, an automaker's finance arm like GMAC or an independent leasing company keeps the title. It's true that you pay sales taxes on the full value of the vehicle when you balloon finance and on only the down payment and monthly lease payments when you lease. But to ensure that they don't lose any sales by suspending leasing, the automakers are covering the difference. When all the fees and financing costs are considered, balloon financing and leasing costs about the same.
 
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