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Hi, I'm new to GTO Forum and I already have a question because is see you guys know what your talking about. I had purchased a 1966 GTO which need a lot of body work. The reason I had purchase this GTO is because the seller told me it was a numbers match GTO. I just found out recently that the motor came out of a 1965 GTO and is not the original motor for the 1966 GTO. I had called the owner because he had lied and told him the motor is not original. He said he had found a 1966 GTO motor in New York and he would get it for me in return for the 1965 motor. By changing the motor to a 1966 GTO Motor, Does that make the car original? I was under the impression that the numbers still would not match, I thought that even if the build date is correct, the other numbers would not match the VIUN number. Could someone shed some light on this issue for me? Thanks Guys::confused
 

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Will still not be numbers matching, but numbers correct. Numbers matching is all original drivetrain to the frame and body.
 

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Welcome to the forum,

Pontiac used some of the same casting numbers and letter codes for both 65 and 66,

If you find a 66 engine with the correct letter code and date code the car would be date code correct and there is no way to verify if that is the correct engine or not.

Pontiac didn't start recording engines until early 67 when they documented the engine unit number on the build sheet, in mid 67 they added the car's vin number to the front of the block.

What are the numbers on the block, intake and exhaust? Have you ordered a PHS packet to see which engine the car was born with?
 

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im not an expert and I could be wrong, but "numbers matching" always meant to me was that the casting date of the correct block was within 4 to 6 weeks prior to production date on trim tag. not very many gtos have the engine it came with from the factory. lets face reality. how many times do you see a gto for sale saying "numbers matching". they couldn't possibly have the original factory engine.
 

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My '66 is a numbers matching original. My guess is that there are still a lot of our cars with original engines. Perhaps rebuilt, but still the original blocks.
 

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Depending on the build date of the car, if it was built in late `65 or early `66 it could have a `65 block. No?
It most certainly could. The engine plants generally 'changed over' about mid-year, so that means an engine date-coded in June of '65 or through about May-June of '66 would most likely be a model year '66 engine.

Bear
 

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that's excellent that you guys have the original motors in your gtos. that's 4 cars. a gto owner who is lucky enough to find a correct engine with the casting date within that 4 to 6 week period of trim tag date qualifies as a " matching numbers" even though the car did not come from the factory with that engine. that's why so many gtos for sale are advertised "matching numbers". back in the day these cars were beat on hard, and some did blow up. there was little concern to keep the car original, myself included.
 

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My 1966 was built in Oct. 1965 and delivered to the new owner in November 1965. So it has a 1965 manufactured engine in a 1966 model year car. The engine manufacture date is 3 weeks earlier than the car assembly date. I guess it's all a matter of interpretation.
 

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in '78 I owned an all original '64 tri-power 4-speed ROYAL BOBCAT with the 76X engine. i rebuilt the original correct block with '65 421 heads and intake with no thought of keeping it original. ( however, it did run like a raped ape! ) haha...
 

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Rickm, I agree with you. Here's my take: "numbers matching" is correctlyb coded and dated engine, trans, and diff. It does NOT mean it's original . "Born with" to me says its original. On early cars, the Protect-o-plate DOES show the Engine Unit Number on the block that is unique to the vehicle, so early engines CAN be verified as "born with" engines. I understand the PHS docs even show the EUN on some early cars. If you are searching for an original, born with, numbers correct car, you need to do all of your homework, and do it carefully. As the value of these cars increases, fraud does, too. What I've found over the years: All of the 4 speed GTO's I've ever owned have had non original engines due to the original block being blown up. And, conversely, ALL of the automatic GTO's I've ever owned had their original, born with engine. Stick shift cars got abused and led much harder lives, especially as cheap used cars in the '70's ;)
 

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Rickm, I agree with you. Here's my take: "numbers matching" is correctlyb coded and dated engine, trans, and diff. It does NOT mean it's original . "Born with" to me says its original. On early cars, the Protect-o-plate DOES show the Engine Unit Number on the block that is unique to the vehicle, so early engines CAN be verified as "born with" engines. I understand the PHS docs even show the EUN on some early cars. If you are searching for an original, born with, numbers correct car, you need to do all of your homework, and do it carefully. As the value of these cars increases, fraud does, too. What I've found over the years: All of the 4 speed GTO's I've ever owned have had non original engines due to the original block being blown up. And, conversely, ALL of the automatic GTO's I've ever owned had their original, born with engine. Stick shift cars got abused and led much harder lives, especially as cheap used cars in the '70's ;)
hell yeah, I paid $600. for my bobcat. SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS!!!! DAMN!!
 
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