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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, so Im wondering if anyone here could help me find some good quality paint. I just need someone to direct me to some good quality exterior paint for my 71 lemans. I am going to need the whole kit, hardner, reducer, exterior paint, etc, etc . Maybe someone can help lead me in the right direction, maybe a listing on ebay . I want to start getting the materials ready so when I get the cash together I can get it painted, but I want to make sure I get the good stuff. Thanks in advance.
 

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i would buy from local auto body supply house, they will make sure everything is compatible and be there if you have any questions or need help, and they know the brands they sell the best, I am using Matrix, recommended by a number of local painters and i have seen it on 4-5 vehicles. whole package base color, premium clear , primer and sealer, wax and grease remover reducers and cleaning solvent came in around 500.00. PPG's top line is good also but a bit more expensive.
 

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Ok, so Im wondering if anyone here could help me find some good quality paint. I just need someone to direct me to some good quality exterior paint for my 71 lemans. I am going to need the whole kit, hardner, reducer, exterior paint, etc, etc . Maybe someone can help lead me in the right direction, maybe a listing on ebay . I want to start getting the materials ready so when I get the cash together I can get it painted, but I want to make sure I get the good stuff. Thanks in advance.
One of the key questions is compatibility, especially if you're not taking the car down to bare metal. Adhesion is the big concern and not "everything" is compatible with "everything else". If you aren't going to strip the car, then your first layer should be a good high quality epoxy primer used as a sealer and applied to a surface that has been prepared per instructions, and is compatible with what you're going to apply over it. If you don't have a set of Kevin Tetz's "Paintucation" DVD's, I highly recommend them. They're available from Eastwood and also from Kevin's Paintucation Web Site. Kevin also runs a paint and body work forum here. I found both of these resources extremely valuable when I started on my 69. I had never done any body work of any kind before, but now I've successfully replaced an entire quarter panel, patched rust damage in both front fenders and hood with new metal, and have the car straight, wet sanded, and ready for paint.

You can see a bunch of photos on my progress on my web site.
Bear
 

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You will also need flexible additives for the primer and cover coats for the endura front bumper.
Not always, it really depends on which products you use. For example, I used epoxy primer from Southern Polyurethanes, Inc on my 69 and it's flexible enough for the bumper with out any flex additive. That's one of the reasons it's a good idea to go with a "name" product. They're almost always backed by a staffed tech support department who's able to help you address specific questions for your particular project.
At a minimum, always obtain, read, and understand the "Tech Sheet/P Sheet" for whichever products you're considering.

Bear
 

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i dont know how long you think its going to take till you are ready for this stuff but i wouldnt buy it now and let it just sit around for a year or two. i would wait and get newer stuff. things like hardener can go bad just sitting on the shelf.
 

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I've painted over 20 cars and have found you can't cheap charlie paint, unless you plan to do it again. I worked my way up to PPG Shopline base/clear, and found the clear pealing at the 2 year mark.. There is no substitute for quality paints. I found a shop that takes care of me and mixes there own paint, and I can't buy the paint for what they charge me for the complete job, I consider myself lucky and have had 3 complete cars, and a hood painted by them in the last 8 months!! A good paint will shine for 3 years without waxing. Anyway, get with a body shop supplier and buy quality paint, unless the body work isn't up to it, then just know that it won't last forever.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well , I wanted to try my hand at painting my car, but being that I have never done it before I am not brave enough to test on my car. So im gonna have my cousin paint the car he has over 10 years exp, I just talked to him and he's going to give me one heck of a deal, and he is able to get some good quality paint. He has all the proper tools, shop , paint booth, so Im just gonna hand it over to him. I will be putting it in the shop this weekend. Here's a pic of what it looks like now, it doesnt look bad, but it has a lot of faded areas in the paint. oh and you cant really tell , but there are some yellow racing stripes on the hood and trunk. I dont want to go back with putting the yellow stripes, but I do need some yellow on the exterior due to having custom yellow and black interior. What would yall suggest ? I've seen the gto stripe kits and was kinda thinking to go that way and get them in yellow. Previous owner got carried away with the yellow, and I cant afford to re-do the interior.
 

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Here's some advice I got from Kevin (and others) over on Paintucation. There's very little in the realm of paint and body work that you can "mess up" to the point that you can't take a step back, review, redo, and correct. The key is to do your homework, take advantage of the education that's available, go slow, and realize that there aren't any shortcuts. There's a very good reason that high quality paint and body work is hideously expensive and hard to find: you're essentially paying someone else to "care" about your car as much as you do. 90% or more of a top quality paint job is in the prep and labor that happens before the first coat of color is ever applied. It's time consuming and labor intensive. It's not, however, all THAT difficult in ways similar to the ways that, say, nuclear physics or brain surgery are difficult. I spent more than a year on my 69 doing all the metal work, priming, blocking, sanding, and wet sanding on my car to get it to the point where it is now: completely wet sanded, straight, solid, no rust, and ready for sealer, color coat, and clear coat. I KNOW it's right and straight because I did every bit of the work myself and made sure. When I ran into something I didn't know how to do, I stopped until I was able to learn and practice - then I did it. When there was a tiny defect in a panel, a high spot or a low spot, I kept working on it and re-applying surfacer (or glaze or filler, or redoing the metal work), block-sanding, re guide-coating, re-sanding, until it was dead nuts straight. It probably took me more "iterations" to get it right than it would have a pro, but the point is - I was able to eventually get it right. I know where every square inch of patched metal is on this car, I know exactly how every weld was done, and I know for an absolute fact that there's no filler on it -anywhere- that's thicker than a sixteenth of an inch. I know what kind of prep was done to all the areas that aren't visible, the braces behind the front fenders where I had to patch some rust, and the same on the hood braces. When I finally start spraying sealer, color, and clear I'll know for certain exactly how much time each coat was allowed to flash, what the air and metal temps were when it was sprayed, how many coats of each (and what brands) are on there, how each layer was mixed and strained, and also that no recoat time "windows" were missed. Unless you're standing over the guy when someone else does the work, those are all things that you just have to take on faith that they'll do correctly because none of it will "show" - at least not until well after you've paid the bill.
There's a cost in terms of time - I had no idea how much work was involved, I've sanded every square inch of this car, by hand, probably at least a dozen times. I wasted a lot of material (primer, surfacer, filler) learning how to work with it and how to get it right. I learned (painfully) not to trifle with trunk lid springs, and I learned (eventually) to remember to put on a mask before grabbing a sanding block (cough cough). Unless I chicken out now, I'm going all the way to the end myself and will do the sealer, color, clear, color-sanding, and buffing. I "hope" to have it done by the time summer arrives, but then I've never been very good at estimating the time required.
The point is, this is the very first time I've done any of this. I started just like you, knowing very little about any of it. I got lucky in finding both the Paintucation DVD's and forum - everything I've accomplished so far, I learned from there and from talking to the people I got my materials from. Southern Polyurethanes, especially, was very helpful.
Trust me when I say, if I can do it - probably anyone can. Just go slow, double check everything, and if something goes wrong - stop, until you're confident you know how to make it right.

Bear
 

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:agree Bear, taking the plunge myself, that forum has been very informative as has 66Tempest here and the workers and patrons at the Local Body Shop Supply. I have filled and smoothed over the epoxy and am almost ready to put on high build and start sanding all over again, and like you said i know every inch of the car many times over. shooting for getting it in the booth by end of April and on the road in May. :cheers
 

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Here's some advice I got from Kevin (and others) over on Paintucation. There's very little in the realm of paint and body work that you can "mess up" to the point that you can't take a step back, review, redo, and correct.
i dont agree. i have painted a lot of cars over the years and even experienced people run into problems. painting has a learning curve and if you are just painting one car you will have trouble gaining enough experience to get past that curve. one mistake in a dozen different factors like reduction,air pressure,water,compatibility,lighting,gun adjustment, gun speed,flash time,trmperature, ect can render your $600-1000 worth of materials wasted. i think with the high cost of materials most rookies should try to find someone who paints for a living and pay him after hours to do the spraying.
 

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i dont agree. i have painted a lot of cars over the years and even experienced people run into problems. painting has a learning curve and if you are just painting one car you will have trouble gaining enough experience to get past that curve. one mistake in a dozen different factors like reduction,air pressure,water,compatibility,lighting,gun adjustment, gun speed,flash time,trmperature, ect can render your $600-1000 worth of materials wasted. i think with the high cost of materials most rookies should try to find someone who paints for a living and pay him after hours to do the spraying.
Just to clarify, I didn't say that there wouldn't be costs involved in having to correct a problem. There's most definitely going to be some cost both in material and in terms of your time. The more you have to re-do, the higher those costs are going to be. What I meant to say was that there are very few mistakes you can make in such a way as to render them un-fixable, regardless of time and cost.

It's a good idea to acquire some "junk" panels from your local salvage yard to practice on, both for educational purposes and to build your confidence and familiarity. You can spend as much time and material on those as you want to, until you're happy with the results you get from your efforts, before working on your "real" project.

I'll say it again, no one is going to care as much about your car as you do. You're not going to get that level of effort from a "buddy" who's trying to do you a favor at reduced cost, and you're for darn sure not going to get it from a collision repair shop whose bread and butter is turning out the maximum amount of work in the minimum amount of time. You might get it from a top-flight custom restoration shop, but get ready to pay for it.

Right now my 69 GTO is dead nuts straight, rust free, in a good 2k primer/surfacer, wet sanded to 600 grit all over, and ready for sealer, color, clear, and wet-sand/buff. I considered having a local restoration/custom shop finsih it from here, so I contacted them and got an estimate. All the hard work is done already. Everything that's left, with the exception of the last color-sand/buff step, all comes out of a spray gun. I don't want any custom graphics, flames, or fancy paint - just good high-gloss black. The estimate I got was just over $21,000. That's 21-thousand dollars, :eek: for a good restoration shop to finish it from where it is right now. Granted, that would be for a near-perfect show quality paint job and, knowing now what kind of effort goes into that, I don't really fault them for their price, but for that much money I could take the car all the way -back- down to bare metal and do the whole job over again, probably twice or more. Yeah, it'll take me longer to do it myself and I may not be able to acheive exactly the same level of quality as they could, but I'm confident that I can satisfy my own standards - for a fraction of the cost. This is "my first time" so I may be back on here in a few months eating crow, but I'm about to find out. :D


Bear
 

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i dont agree. can render your $600-1000 worth of materials wasted. i think with the high cost of materials most rookies should try to find someone who paints for a living and pay him after hours to do the spraying.
:agree There is so much that can go wrong while painting it isn't funny. I hang out at a paint shop, and every car they paint has something wrong with it due to the booth, dryers, prep, dessicant, etc.. If you think your first paint job is worth $600 worth of supplies your wrong. Spray cheap paint and redo it later when you know whats up, and don't even think about spraying a metallic, solid colors don't tiger stripe. Body shops charge $1000 to wet sand/buff your car after they paint it, thats' to get rid of their imperfections.. Enjoy the project, paint it, but don't expect all that much out of your first paint job, unless you have a pro hanging over your shoulder correcting your mistakes.
 

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Everything that's left, with the exception of the last color-sand/buff step, all comes out of a spray gun. I don't want any custom graphics, flames, or fancy paint - just good high-gloss black. The estimate I got was just over $21,000.
That's because they saw the car and don't think it's as dead nuts straight as you do, and they have to warranty it and will strip it and redo everything you have done.. Not dissing you in any way, but even if it's right, they still will guide coat it over and over to insure it is straight, many hours at $75 an hour.. Not $21K, you need to find a shop that is hungry and wants to do the work.. Black is the color that shows all, silver, white and light colors don't show imperfections as much. If I were you, I would paint it myself and see how it turns out, then decide if it's up to your standards and go from there.
 

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The estimate I got was just over $21,000. That's 21-thousand dollars, :eek: for a good restoration shop to finish it from where it is right now.
Bear
21k is nuts. you should be able to find a pro painter who will work after hours and just spray it for under 500. another option is check this guy out. he is in texas. he does restorations.

http://www.swrnc.com/
YouTube - swrnc's Channel
 

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LOL Free....Pete also has the funniest video's on youtube (, thats my kinda guy, no Bull***t and tells it like it is, would let him paint my ride any day
 

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That's because they saw the car and don't think it's as dead nuts straight as you do, and they have to warranty it and will strip it and redo everything you have done..
They never saw the car. That estimate was sight unseen, with them assuming that what I was telling them was true. They said if it wasn't really straight and needed more work, the price would go up.

Black is the color that shows all, silver, white and light colors don't show imperfections as much. If I were you, I would paint it myself and see how it turns out, then decide if it's up to your standards and go from there.
That's exactly what I'm going to do, and I'll be using the PPG "good stuff" DBC line :)


Bear
 
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