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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)
Hey fellow GTO enthusiasts! I have purchased a 1967 GTO of which I'm going down to test drive tomorrow. I have attached a pic and would like anyone's opinion if you notice anything "weird" or "clonish". It is a 242 car built in Fremont with black plates and a YS engine. It looks like it needs some minor body work, but for the price I got it for, it seems well worth it. I don't have interior pics but have been told it's in ok condition and does have the clock and radio. I did notice no hood emblem, but these can be found? I will be ordering the PHS docs on monday but feel fairly certain that this is a great deal.

The two door post car I was interested in in a previous post seemed to be originally equipped with the XM motor (two barrel lowest horsepower) so even though it had a hood tach and post, I think this car I'm buying is a better deal. Thanks for your thoughts in advance!

<--click on this image!
 

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'67 Opinion

Hi Linda. Welcome to the World of Pontiacs! I think the '67 is one of the best years for a GTO. In the photo, it looks like a code N Burgundy car. Great color, holds up well to the elements, and shows off the cars lines. The best thing to do to authenticate the car is PHS docs, which you did. You'll know soon enough. The 242 is a GTO indicator, but plates can be changed. Back when I bought my GTO's, they were just old used cars, and nobody bothered to clone them. Look for signs of more than 3 holes on the inside of each rear fender when you open the trunk. GTO's had three pins holding the emblems on, Le Mans's had many pins. Look in front of the rear wheel wells on the quarter panels--any filler? LeMans had "gill" indentations here, GTO's were smooth. Look around the tail light panel..any welding or repair? Look underneath the car at the crossmember that holds the trans in place. GTO had a special crossmember for it's turbo 400 trans....the Lemans and Tempest had a 2 speed trans, and a different crossmember, mounted at a different location on the frame. The mounting area at the FRAME will have been changed, and there will extra holes, etc. if it's a fake. If it was a Tempest or LeMans, there will be signs of welding/filling/recent refinishing in all of these areas. Fremont car, eh?? My '65 was built in Fremont!! I used to commute in it every day from Oakland to San Jose right past the plant where it was built, back in the mid '80's!!! Anything else, let me know. Glad to help if I can. Be wary of ANY very recent appearing body work in those "GTO specific" areas. Take care.
Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you!

Hey Jeff,
I appreciate your help. I did remember the "fins" and will be looking for evidence.....Ahhh, the 80's....I did have two 64 Lemanses in the 80's. I've been looking for the right GTO ever since. This one just listed yesterday and it's for my 40th bday present. I put a deposit on it and am taking a trip to Cali tomorrow to test drive it. Apparently, it's been all gone through and I had the owner look at the motor code. It is a YS. I know people do change the data plates and they should be severely punished! Hah! It does have the California Black Plates included (a plus), and it's been sitting for a couple of years. Apparently as the story goes, a guy owns an auto shop and has done work to it and wants to get his money back. I'm getting it for $8995. So, if it is a genuine GTO, I can't really go wrong right?
Linda
 

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Hi Linda. I've seen parts cars go for more than that....It sounds like the car is in MY neck of the woods...gee, if you could give me the guy's phone number....JUST KIDDING! A YS code car is the standard 335 horse engine: less likely to be faked than a HO engined car. Even if the car needs major work, and it may: It will appreciate in value, even if just sitting (as long as it's inside a shelter), It will be a challenging and very rewarding hobby....you actually get to DRIVE the fruits of your labor, a '67 GTO looks better and better with each passing year, just like a '36 Packard or a Van Gogh....and, if you decide you're in over your head, your tired of it, whatever, you can sell it, probably for a profit. I paid $1200 for my '65 tripower 4spd car in Hayward, and $`1800 for my '67 ragtop YS car in Livermore, in the early '80s. I never restored them: just maintained them and repaired them over the years. Total cash outlay, including engine overhauls, paint jobs, brake jobs, etc is about $8400 for BOTH GTO's!!! What could be bad about buying a car, driving it 25 years, and having it go up in value about 30-40 times??? Good luck on the '67. Remember, these are old cars, and won't handle or stop like new ones....But, they are way more comfortable and ride much better than the newer, lighter front wheel drive stuff. But, they are SIMPLE cars, easy to repair, and built of heavier and better quality matterials than available today. The neat thing is, all the parts needed are available from parts vendors. All you need is cash. But, unlike some other things, the more money you invest, the more the car will be worth. Excellent return! In the early 80's, it was Junk Yard City for me--no repro parts!! Let me know if I can be of further help, and have fun!!!
Jeff
 

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Great find Linda, the engine code YS was used from 65 through 74 in the GTO, if your want to check the car for the correct engine look at the casting number and the date code on the back of the engine. The casting number for 67 is 9786133 and is found on the distributor pad (sometimes only 6133) in early 67 and behind cylinder 8 on later 67's. The date codes produced in late 66 for the 67 model year did not include the letter "I" as a month code. About the same time they included the letter I is when they relocated the casting from the distributor pad to behind cylinder 8.

The date code should look like this, B177, which would be for February 17, 1967. The PHS documents will include an engine unit number on the billing history that will match the code stamped under the YS letter code if the engine is correct.

In 67 they usd 670 heads, this code is found on the center exhaust ports just above the manifold, the date codes are located just below the valve covers.

The 67 400 had an 8 bolt water pump which changed to 11 bolt in 69.

As far as changing vin tags and data plates, pontiac used unique rivets that can be easily identified as non original. The data plate used hollow rivets that were sometimes sealed with seam sealer, the vin tags were fastened with rosette rivets which are very hard to find and are illegal in some states.

Post more pictures when you can,
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Is Anyone in San Diego tomorrow?

Well guys,
Hope you all enjoy the game today. I'll be on a plane....by the way Jeff, if you are around San Diego tomorrow, I'd pay for you to help me look at the car. I appreciate all of your guy's help. You too 05GTO! Your response has been printed and is going with me. I'm going a long way to check this car out. Have any of you used a shipping service? Who can I trust?
 

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Hi Linda. I'd be glad to check out that car, for no charge at all, but I'm 7 hours north of San Diego! When you look at the car, remember to be as objective as you can. Try not to let emotions get in the way. Don't be visibly eager to buy the car. If it is indeed a real GTO (It sounds like it is) , you can't go wrong for the price you stated. Just remember to look for any recent or obvious changes/or touch up of paint, etc. Also, look at the inner door panels where the GTO crest is mounted. If they were changed from a LeMans, there will be an imprint in the vinyl around the emblem where the old LeMans emblem was. Look for rust along the base of the front windshield and rear windows, common on these cars. Not a big issue, though. All the little stuff, like suspension bushings, oil leaks, etc. are easily fixed. The main thing is that it's a real GTO, and that it has a failrly rust free body and floor. That's where the big money comes in for repair. Get underneath the car with a flashlight and look at the footwells in the floorboard area. Look for rust-through. Look around the wheel wells, particularly at the bottom edges for blistering and other signs of rust. As long as the car has a solid body, it is a good candidate. Hopefully, you'll be looking at an original, neglected car with no signs of welding around the tail lamp panel, no changes to the VIN or trim tags, and a good solid body and floorpan. I've had a lot of GTO's, and I've learned that it's much easier and cheaper to re-do a car that needs mechanical and interior work than to fix a rusted out hulk. Good luck.
Jeff
 

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Linda,

I will be at my shop all day Monday and I will have my code books available. I am PMing my cell number to you. Feel free to call me and I will help you any way I can.
 

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The date code should look like this, B177, which would be for February 17, 1967. The PHS documents will include an engine unit number on the billing history that will match the code stamped under the YS letter code if the engine is correct.
When did they start putting engine #s on the billing history cards? My `65 shows nothing like that.
 

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When did they start putting engine #s on the billing history cards? My `65 shows nothing like that.
In 67 and maybe part of 68, they changed from an 8 bolt water pump to an 11 bolt water pump in early 69 and started using the last 8 or 9 digits of the vin around the same time.
 

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Rukee: I have the original Protecto-Plate and booklet for my '65 (Also a blue charcoal car like yours!) It has the original ws coded engine number on the plate and in the booklet . It's the only place in writing I've ever seen one for a '65. Unfortunately, my original block was grenaded in 1978 at Fremont Dragstrip and is no more. I rebuilt and installed a correct '65 WT code block back in the early '80's. I didn't even look for a WS block back then. I just lucked onto the right year block by chance. I have no other papers on my car other than California registration slips back to the early '70's, the ProtectoPlate booklet, and the PHS docs I ordered. I never did find a build sheet in the car.(Found one under the rear seat of my '67, though!)
jeff
 

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I remember when I would look at cars for sale that I could not drive to in a couple of hours. Since I am a member of GTOAA, I just pull out the national GTOAA directory and call a fellow member. They have always been willing to look at a car and call me back with their evaluation. Really helped with the first two I bought.
 
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