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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone,
I'm looking at becoming a GTO owner once again. I had a '69 Judge as my first car, photo is in my album.

After looking at several cars for sale, I'm going to check one out tomorrow. The car I'm going to see is a 1970 GTO convertible. It is not a numbers matching car. The engine is a newly rebuilt '69 RA III. The steering wheel is also not original, but the original is in the trunk along with the original AM radio. The car has been driven only one mile since the restoration.

Here is the seller's description: I have a 1970 GTO Convertible with Judge badging. This is a true GTO Convertible with Judge badging. This was a nut and bolt frame off restoration. Fresh built Big block 400 with rebuilt 4 speed with new clutch. This car has new sheet metal, Interior ,convt top, Glass, Flowmaster exhaust, Etc...Too much to list! No expense was spared on this build/restoration. This car has almost everything new. Runs and drives Great! This car not only has the Judge badging but has the complete Judge package...Ram air system, Hood tack, Hurst shifter and headers.

He is asking $45,900. I'm not looking for a show class car, I'm looking for something for my wife and I to enjoy as a driver. That said, I don't want to over pay.

I appreciate any and all comments. Thank you!

Tony
Photos of said car attached (if it doesn't work, I'll post in an album)
 

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I am not a fan of clones. That said, you can't touch a real Judge ragtop for anywhere near 46k. It probably cost much more to restore than 46k. Sounds like it may be priced about right, but would need to see the car to judge the quality of the restoration. Pretty sure it would be worth more as just a GTO ragtop, painted the original color, and with the original engine. Do you have PHS docs on the car? Bottom line, if you like it, and it's as nice as it looks, the price is not out of line.
 

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This is just my opinion. But if I was spending north of 40K on a GTO I'd want numbers matching and I'd want it to be show quality, maybe not a concourse restoration but I'd want it to be respectable. Plus if it's painted like a Judge and it's not, I personally think that detracts from value - not adding to it.

Ultimately the right price is the price you feel good about to get the car you want but I have been scouring CL for a couple weeks from coast to coast and there are bargains out there (and in my opinion some "right" priced solid GTO's).

My wife and I are looking for something pretty specific and I am finding candidates, if this isn't it, keep looking, they are out there.
 

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I would agree that the price is a bit high for a non-matching car. If you are planning on using the car as a driver, you should be able to find one for less. Keep in mind a driver car will end up getting road chips and the odd scratches that come with driving and the value of a perfect restoration will drop with every chip. If you are going to drive the car anyway, look for a very nice driver then you won't worry about putting the first scratches on. That's what I love about mine; it was an older restoration when I bought it and it had a couple odd chips in the paint already.

That all being said, I can see your attraction here. This car is very nice and I love that it's a 4 speed. At the end of the day you have to decide if it is the right car for you. Good luck and welcome to the Pontiac world!
 

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I agree, if you want a car to drive you can find some nice candidates in the mid 20's with recent restorations. Looks like a nice car he's not out of line if it's a top notch resto but think it would have been more sellable if not cloned and taken back to original.
I've been back and forth about buying a neighbors 70' thats all done mechanically and body wise ready for final prime and paint. It's a non matching, true GTO with judge package added. Got PHS and it was cream with parchment interior so i would have no desire taking it back to that anyways. I would have it as a driver so the numbers don't concern me either but i do have a year correct 400 out of a firebird that could replace the 455 when needed. he is asking 11 and i bet i could get it for 9. Couple grand in paint and labor and it could be on the road for under 15.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Thank you for all the comments. I had a delay in going to see this car, but I'm almost there now. I've noticed some things from the photos to check on. I'm in no rush to buy, so if I don't like it I'll walk away. If I'm still interested, I'm going to order an inspection and make a counter offer based on that.

Few things I've noticed from photos:
1. The rear wing appears either wrong or installed upside down.
2. The new interior is not the 1970 design with the insert weave.
3. Yellow spark plug wires?

Not deal breakers, but definitely should drop the price.

Tony
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Well, I took a look.

Biggest surprise, and possibly the deal maker, is this is a Ram Air IV engine! I still think the price may be high. Paint is not that great, but is ok. Motor seems perfect and only has five miles on it after the restore. Exhaust is a brand new Flomaster system with warranty. Rally gauges and tach all work and the radiator cap has a temp gauge. Top works has a new motor. Not sure the top is correct, as it has a plastic window and doesn't seem to fit all the way in the top well.

I'll post some new photos when I get back home.

BTW, the rear wing is mounted upside down and backwards, just as I thought. Guy was looking at a bad photo when he installed it. Said that's the way it was when he got the car prior to restore.
 

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OK, so this gentleman did an extensive restoration and was unaware the spoiler was on wrong? An OK paint job? $45K? Wow. Matt
 

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Discussion Starter #9
OK, so this gentleman did an extensive restoration and was unaware the spoiler was on wrong? An OK paint job? $45K? Wow. Matt
:nonod:Yeah, that's what I said. He went by an old B&W photo. Said that's how it was when he bought the car.:eek2:

I do know that some guys did this on purpose back in the 70's thinking it made the car more aerodynamic, it's just wrong!

I may have an appraisal done and make the guy a low offer. No way am I going to dump $45 K on this vehicle. There are way too many better ones out there.

There were other off things also. Front buckets were '69, back bench '70. Exhaust pipe tips were single square and not round chrome split. Hood scoops were not flat black inserts. Rag top white, boot black. :tongue:

I'm sure if I dove into it I'd find much more. Just had surgery, so I had to rely on my grandson's eyes to help me.

Engine did sound good. And Ram Air IV's are hard to find. But, still not worth near what asking. I'd think $25K was more in the ball park. May be best to just walk away from this one!:leaving:
 

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Keep looking, there are plenty of nice cars out there especially if you're willing to spend into the $40K range. At that price, the paint should be perfect and matching numbers should be a must on your list. Good luck and keep us posted.

If this helps, I used AAG for my insurance appraisal. They also do pre-purchase inspections if you find a car too far to look at in person. They were a bit expensive but very thorough. They send you a 4-5 page report and an estimate of the value. May be the best money you spend to save you a trip.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thank you!

Keep looking, there are plenty of nice cars out there especially if you're willing to spend into the $40K range. At that price, the paint should be perfect and matching numbers should be a must on your list. Good luck and keep us posted.

If this helps, I used AAG for my insurance appraisal. They also do pre-purchase inspections if you find a car too far to look at in person. They were a bit expensive but very thorough. They send you a 4-5 page report and an estimate of the value. May be the best money you spend to save you a trip.
I appreciate everyone's input. I'm calling the seller today and telling him I'm not interested in the car at anywhere near his asking price. I'm also foregoing the inspection. I'll save that for a more worthy car.
 
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