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Discussion Starter #1
My 67 is numbers matching, front to rear, and as far as I can tell has never had any major engine work, such as a rebuild, etc.
It has developed a few leaks (rear main seal), etc. and I have decided that if I am going to continue to drive it on a weekly basis that it is time to make a move on it.

My research shows that the costs will be relatively equal (+/- a few hundred $$$) either way, and my options are:

1) Pull the motor and send it off to a machine shop such as Central Virginia Machine where it will be rebuilt from the ground up, dished pistons, new rods, valve train, etc.to bring it up to modern specs inside, while maintaining the original heads, manifolds, carb, etc. and original look, outside.

2) Pull the motor, put it into storage, and install another motor with all of the modern bells and whistles, aluminum heads, manifold, new carb, etc. for weekend driving fun, retaining the original motor, in original condition, to be passed on to a new owner should I ever decide to sell the car.

I would appreciate anyone's opinion(s) regarding the Pros and Cons of either option above.
 

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If it were me and the costs came out the same, I'd restore the original. It'll be fast, sound good and when someone asks,"What you got under the hood?", the answer is all that more impressive. If you want better performance, you can always change intake/carb and headers while retaining the originals on a shelf for later and it's still numbers matching. Just my humble opinion as a numbers matching '69 Goat owner.
 

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It's really up to you....what do you want? I have the original drivetrain in my '67, and several years ago installed lower compression Pontiac heads. That enabled me to drive the car on pump gas. 2 years ago, I pulled the engine for a reseal job, and it was cheap and effective, as I did all the labor myself with a friend helping out. Not a big deal. I had rebuilt the engine in 1988, and it had about 75,000 miles on the rebuild, so just a reseal was needed. As a side note, it didn't really need a rebuild in '88...it just had 2 burnt valves. If I knew then what I know now, I would have done the heads and left the rest alone. Bear on this forum did exactly what you're thinking with his #'s correct '69 GTO....he did a Jim Lehert 461 stroker, and has a 500HP street machine that is capable of 11 second 1/4 mile times. His car is a monster, and that's how he likes it. It's really up to you and what you want to do with the end product...do you want a street terror or a cruiser?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I'm really wanting to end up with the same product either way, a strong street machine that will go hard if I want and stand up to a little abuse while maintaining sanity at the stop sign, and reasonable RPM levels (gas mileage) on the highway.
Jim at Central Virginia Machine has a package that he calls the "400 Pontiac Restoration" that would satisfy the need.
I guess what it really comes down to is whether or not rebuilding an "original" motor internally to modern specs. will diminish the value of the car down the road?
 

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Sir, it sounds like "numbers matching" is a feature that is important to you. Option 1 sounds best for you. Or a third option of only fixing what needs attention, as Geeteeohguy mentions. Much more affordable as well. Matt
 

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Rebuilding the original engine to modern specs will not diminish the value of the car, particularly if it's just dished pistons and a cam. If you go for a full blown stroker, you will lose potential value if you sell it, and you will sacrifice street manners and mpg. I even went as far as installing a highway geared rear end in mine (shelving the oem unit) and enjoy over 20mpg at 75mph on the highway. That, as well as being able to run on pump gas, has me driving the '67 a lot more than my '65, which is still the original high compression and needs race gas. The main thing in keeping value is keeping the original block with the car at sale time. My big question is how many miles on your engine? If under 150,000, and it runs well, I would not rebuild it. I'd pull and reseal and think about some garden variety lower compression heads with about a 90cc chamber. If you do decide to go the rebuild route, Jim is 'the man' and the first choice IMO to do the job.
 

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I forgot to add, and this is very important, that when you upgrade your engine power significantly, you will have to upgrade everything else: rear end, trans, brakes, suspension, etc. Putting a monster motor into a bone stock chassis is asking for parts breakage and possible safety issues. Look at Bear's threads and see what he did with his 461: new rear end, brakes, suspension, trans, etc. $$$, but bulletproof and safe to drive. He also gets decent mpg for his HP: about 15, if I remember correctly.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Excellent info Geeteeohguy. Best I can tell the speedo on my car is about to roll for the second time (approx. 197,000 mi.), so a rebuild is probably in order.
From the input to this point, I think I'm going to be sending the motor to Virginia.
When I spoke to Jim he indicated that his "400 Pontiac Restoration" package would likely only increase the hp to somewhere in the 375 range (only 40 more than stock) while maintaining all of the original exterior parts (heads, intake, carb, etc.) and making the entire package much stronger from a reliability standpoint, so I'm thinking that the stock Turbo Hydramatic and 3:36 rear will still handle the package. May have to upgrade to a modern torque converter though.
 

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I own a 67 Matching numbers goat and I decided to rebuild the original engine . I put in an Extreme Energy cam, forged pistons, etc. The car runs great, sounds awesome, and I can still point to the engine and say it is the one that came in the car when new. The only drawback I can see, is if you plan on racing and beating on the engine, and you have a catastrophic failure, you will hurt the value associated with a "matching numbers" car.
 

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Sounds like you're already getting good advice. I know Jim will tell you the honest truth and build you a good engine at a fair price. I built my original numbers-matching 69 engine into a 461 under his guidance and using his parts, and I'm very happy. I can almost get away with passing it off as stock to the casual observer, that is until they hear it run :D

Don't obsess too much over impacting the resale value. Ask yourself who you're building the car for and who you're trying to please. In my case, I'm never going to sell my 69 (no one in their right mind would pay me even just what I've spent on it anyway), so impact to resale value is meaningless to me.

One you have an honest answer to that question for yourself, you might find the other decisions get a little easier.

Bear
 

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Evers3, you are doing the right thing IMO. With the miles you have on the clock, a quality rebuild is in order, and with Jim's package, it'll work perfectly with your TH400 and 3.36 gears with no issues at all. You will have a strong driver that you will be able to enjoy, literally, for decades. If I were in your shoes, I would do the same thing....and I've been at this for awhile!! Good call.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks everyone for your response, it's interaction like this that makes this forum worth it's weight in gold.
Can't wait to finish the project and hit the road!!
 
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