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Discussion Starter #1
Ok I put out my thoughts on Saturn, so here is Pontiac.

GM should have killed GMC not Saturn and Pontiac. GMC is an exact duplicate of Chevy trucks. Pontiac is not a duplicate of any other GM brand but does have similarities with Chevy. Kill those similarities.

Pontiac has always been upscale, not to the point of Olds and Buick, but definately a step up from Chevy. Play on that, upscale performance.

First bring back the G8. Call it the Tempest and only have it available with the V8. Have a 4 seater package with a full length console.

Bring back the GTO, a two door G8/ Tempest. Use a 4 wheel independent suspension to seperate it from the Camaro. Unlike the Camaro it only has the V8. Make it a small step up from the Camaro SS. Then make the GTO Judge with the CTS V's great supercharged V8. You could price it at 48,000 and it wouldn't steal sales from the Camaro or the CTS.

Bring over the UTE. Play on it's Aussie heritage. Make a UTE Judge model.

Then go to Opel and and bring over the Opel Insignia. Two levels, premium with a 2.8 V6 turbo and ultra premium with 3.6 direct injection from Cadilac. Call them the Grand Am and Grand Am GTP.

Then pick select trucks from the GMC line that is being killed and bring them to Pontiac. The Yukon becomes the Safari. The Sierra comes over only as a 1/2 ton. Two versions, 4 dr luxury version and 4 door sport model.

Last bring over the Opel Tigra twin top. It's a hardtop convertible 2 seater that is sporty but efficient and very affordible. Think VW EOS. Call this car the Sunbird.

You would have mostly niche cars with a performance theme to them. They would not overlap with any other GM product save the trucks and that would be limited to the luxury models that Chevrolet has.

This saves Pontiac and gives GM inroad into markets it's not currently in. The Pontiac store doesn't compete with the Chevy store or the Buick store. It just adds another flavor.
 

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Sounds good but why bring back the Sunbird name? I say call that one the Grand am and call the other Opel a Grand Prix or Bonneville. Much more history and better cars. Or drop both the Bird and Am and use Prix and Ville.
 

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GM doesn't need 'niche' cars. They just need to sell cars period. Most people don't want anything but to get form A to B. Thats why Toyota/Honda do so good. Cheap and they get you there. Only true auth enthusiasts wants cars like we do... and there just isn't enough of us.
 

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GM doesn't need 'niche' cars. They just need to sell cars period. Most people don't want anything but to get form A to B. Thats why Toyota/Honda do so good. Cheap and they get you there. Only true auth enthusiasts wants cars like we do... and there just isn't enough of us.
Good point.
 

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Plain and simple GM should have offered a manual transmission in EVERY SINGLE CAR THEY PRODUCED. And that is why they fail. Why no manual for the G6 (outside the 1 year run of the GTP) or Grand Prix, or Bonneville? Or anything that Chevrolet makes outside of the Cobalt, Camaro, and Corvette? Good luck finding a GM truck in stick...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Plain and simple GM should have offered a manual transmission in EVERY SINGLE CAR THEY PRODUCED. And that is why they fail. Why no manual for the G6 (outside the 1 year run of the GTP) or Grand Prix, or Bonneville? Or anything that Chevrolet makes outside of the Cobalt, Camaro, and Corvette? Good luck finding a GM truck in stick...
I disagree.

Even in Porsche the majority of cars sold are automatics. The day will come fairly soon when stick shift cars will be obsolete.

Currently Automatics are faster straight line and get better fuel economy. The only advantage is in road racing and PDK type transmissions, clutchless automated manuals are taking over there. Ferrari only expects to sell 10% of the new 458 in a manual transmission.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
GM doesn't need 'niche' cars. They just need to sell cars period. Most people don't want anything but to get form A to B. Thats why Toyota/Honda do so good. Cheap and they get you there. Only true auth enthusiasts wants cars like we do... and there just isn't enough of us.
Every large automaker has a niche car or two.

Toyota made the MR2 Spyder to draw attention. They are heavily criticized for not having any flavor cars so they are working on developing some now. You could say the Prius was initially thought to be a niche car.

Honda had the S2000 and the NSX. They are bringing back the NSX.

VW has the EOS and it had the Phaeton. Audi has the R8. Porsche has the GT2, the GT3 and the Turbo.

Ferrari is a niche brand and they have niche Ferrari's.

Ford made the GT.

GM has the V series Caddys and the ZR1.

Nissan has the GT-R.
 

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I disagree.

Even in Porsche the majority of cars sold are automatics. The day will come fairly soon when stick shift cars will be obsolete.

Currently Automatics are faster straight line and get better fuel economy. The only advantage is in road racing and PDK type transmissions, clutchless automated manuals are taking over there. Ferrari only expects to sell 10% of the new 458 in a manual transmission.
There is more mechanical loss through an automagic. They are also prone to partial or total failure after six digit mileage. The only reason an automagic is "quicker" in a straight line is because of the shifts. A sequential manual technically would shift the quickest, having a pneumatic clutch.

Pros and Cons each indeed to both, but some people like a choice. Personally I don't like the inability to hold a gear and when it shifts under varying loads. For instance, say you go WOT, get some wheelspin, and back off half way and it shifts up.
 

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I think Pontiac will be back when GM pays off its debt.
They did try to sell Saturn but not Pontiac.I've been wrong before so who knows.Maybe make limited "special" cars under the GMC name?
Like the 442 , GTO etc.
 

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GMC... cars?
 

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Never could understand why GMC was kept over Pontiac. Pontiac would have been the best platform to compete with performance luxury brands (BMW/Audi/etc.) I think they wanted Cadillac wanted to pick that up, but it should have stuck with luxury perfomance at best (Mercedes/Jaguar/etc.).
 

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Yep, keep your bread & butter brand (Chevrolet), your two overpriced luxury divisions (Buick, Cadillac), an extra division solely for trucks & SUV's that are blatant rebadged Chevrolets, and shut down your performance (Pontiac) and economy (Saturn) divisions.

It makes sense if you're a Pontiac hater... which makes me wonder what's going on in the upper crust of society, because the only people who don't like Pontiacs are either terrorists or pedophiles.
 

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"They" should bring back Pontiac. Make 3 great looking, well built cars. A big RWD or AWD Luxury "Bonneville". A nice family hauler (used to be called station wagons) "Safari".....And a made in the USA Sport/Performance retro looking 2 door "GTO".....then go kick toyota outta here.:willy: and SELL some cars!!!!!!
 

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What they need to do first and foremost is to get out from under the thumb of Nobama. He's ultimately behind what GM will do despite his remark I don't want to run a car company, B.S. CEO's don't act fast enough he has them axed. With GM reporting to a higher authority they will always be handcuffed. They need to satisfy their debt to the FEDS so THEY can move on and control their own fate and not having the FEDS dictate to them and clandestinely running them.
 

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GM should have sold the divisions they shut down. There was a rumor that there was a group of ex-Pontiac engineers that collectively offered to purchase Pontiac from GM, but like GM and the only thing they ever say regarding Pontiac, they said "no."

Epic phail, IMO.
 

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GM should have sold the divisions they shut down. There was a rumor that there was a group of ex-Pontiac engineers that collectively offered to purchase Pontiac from GM, but like GM and the only thing they ever say regarding Pontiac, they said "no."

Epic phail, IMO.
I heard that too. I wonder how serious and reasonable the offer was? I'm just hoping that the bring the G8 to Chevy as a civilian car so I can get one that I missed out on. Too bad it will have the ugly ass Chevy front end.
 

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GM needs to shed the UAW. Plain and simple. Seriously, are you NOT going to buy an American made car that's made by non-union workers? All the foreign machines are non-union made.

Hell, there's no union for the type of work I do, so screw 'em. My $.02.
 
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