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Discussion Starter #1
I am looking at a numbers matching 64 GTO, Tri-power, 4 speed, 3.23, convertible GTO. Drive train appears to be 100% original and matches the PHS, cowl tag, as well as the assorted numbers from Pontiac power. All the options listed on the manifest are accurate and in place. (missing original wheel disks) The car drives well and runs strong. No smoke or noise. (Tri-power needs a tune) The brakes are terrible, but no major front end issues.
The problem is.....the body has a ton of bondo, the paint job is garbage and the frame has rot in all the common places.

Since this would be a big job, I am weighing the value of numbers matching (positive) vs. the time/money it will take to restore this car. (negative)

All comments welcome.
 

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Regardless of the numbers, restoring a car will always cost more than buying a 'done' car, especially when dealing with a rusted car. The car you describe in restored condition is worth about 40-60k in todays market.....and would likely cost about 80-100k to restore. My advice? buy one that is not rusty, period. You are better off buying a car in need of restoration that is simply worn out, but not cancerous.
 

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Agreed 100% :wink2: Not to mention if you buy a "done" car you get to enjoy it right away. My advice is always buy the nicest example you can even if you have to pay more than you want to.
 

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Is $80,000 the purchase price?

Please confirm what seller is asking.
If in fact $80,000 is the purchase price and granted this GTO is at the 50th Anniversary mark - it is way overpriced!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ha. Sorry. Not anywhere close. If I had $80k laying around I would buy two $40k cars. GeeTeeOhguy said it would cost $80k to $100k to restore. Purchase price is <$20k. Just trying to figure with a new frame, floor/trunk pans, rear qtrs sheet metal, paint, tune up, brake upgrade, what would the restoration cost. (over price of the car)
 

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Even if the car was $2500, with the cost of a frame, pans, sheet metal, etc., you would be so upside down in the car you'd lose your shirt. You'd end up with a 40K car that cost 80-100k to restore. And, someone like me wouldn't even pay the 40k for it, being that it's and extensively rebuilt car with non original frame, floors, and sheetmetal. For 40k on up, it had better have most of its born-with panels, and for sure would have to have its born-with frame.
 

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Even if the car was $2500, with the cost of a frame, pans, sheet metal, etc., you would be so upside down in the car you'd lose your shirt. You'd end up with a 40K car that cost 80-100k to restore. And, someone like me wouldn't even pay the 40k for it, being that it's and extensively rebuilt car with non original frame, floors, and sheetmetal. For 40k on up, it had better have most of its born-with panels, and for sure would have to have its born-with frame.
:agree
 

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It is nice that it is numbers matching, but I don't think it really adds any big value because the car is not "rare" enough, ie a Ram Air car, or something unique like a 4.30 rear gear, radio/heater delete, manual steering -that type of thing. Sure, its a convertible and that has value, but I don't feel that the '64 GTO's are as desirable as the years that followed.

I think 20K is way too much considering all you have said about the car and if it needs a frame, well, there goes original numbers matching. Sad to say with it needing a frame replacement, its probably worth 1/4 of the asking price. Once you begin to strip off the paint, you might be opening a can of worms. I mean, frame, floors, trunk, quarters? lower doors?, lower front fenders? windshield channels? and what else? Looks like it needs an interior. The drive train may seem good, but are you honestly going to restore the body & interior and not rebuild the entire driveline, suspension,& brake system? (You could probably drop in a 455CI & 5-speed or 461CI and 4-speed with a 1965-66 tri-power and up the value over numbers matching in my opinion)

So what exactly are you buying again for 20K????

Now if it is a car you have to have and you have the finances AND know you will never reclaim your investment should you sell it, then go for it and don't look back. It is a nice looking car from 50 feet and perhaps you can give it the just due it deserves and restore it to its former glory.

Just saying.:smile2:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
So I guess you guys are saying... go for it. LOL

The reason I liked this car, was the original running drive train. Not overly concerned about 100% matching numbers with frame,sheet metal dashboard, ash try, etc. From what I understand there were <3000 4spd, tri-power, convertibles made in 64. I know it is not as rare as some of the RA cars and judges, but it is rare for the year.(and I like the look, feel and story of the 64. Plus tri power is cool) Also, how many are still alive today with the original drive train...that you can drive? (the top works perfect for crying out loud) From this thread it sounds like it could be a total money pit and I appreciate all the advice. On the other hand, I have seen sheet metal kits for around $1800 and frames (box) from $2500 to $10k. (depending on build and configuration). I have no desire to put in a 455 and to make a racer out of it. Just want to have something to cruise around in and pass on to the family.
 

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Like these guys have said, if this is a car THAT YOU WANT, and can afford, then go for it. Do not expect to make money on it. Also, the cost of parts will only be a tiny portion of what you spend restoring one of these things, so budget realistically.

Look at Hagerty for a reality check on the value of this car. It is a (very) sub-4 condition in an undesirable year. A condition 2 car wouldn't be worth what that guy is asking.

Price Guide Report
 

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I have to disagree on the undesirable year statement. 1964 was the first year, the lowest production year of the 'real' GTO's, and is highly sought after. This car, however, is one to avoid. The only way I'd want it would be to buy it for $2k, and drive it as-is, doing zero cosmetic repair. Maybe put a frame under it. But leave it as a total roach, and drive it to car shows. I'd sit in my lawn chair and have a huge "Not For Sale" sign on the car, just to be ornery.
 

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So I guess you guys are saying... go for it. LOL

The reason I liked this car, was the original running drive train. Not overly concerned about 100% matching numbers with frame,sheet metal dashboard, ash try, etc. From what I understand there were <3000 4spd, tri-power, convertibles made in 64. I know it is not as rare as some of the RA cars and judges, but it is rare for the year.(and I like the look, feel and story of the 64. Plus tri power is cool) Also, how many are still alive today with the original drive train...that you can drive? (the top works perfect for crying out loud) From this thread it sounds like it could be a total money pit and I appreciate all the advice. On the other hand, I have seen sheet metal kits for around $1800 and frames (box) from $2500 to $10k. (depending on build and configuration). I have no desire to put in a 455 and to make a racer out of it. Just want to have something to cruise around in and pass on to the family.
I think this is a nice car regardless of its issues. Sure she has rust, but being from upstate NY, I have seen worse. If it is truly a numbers matching 64 vert with a factory tri power, and it runs and drives, maybe you should grab it and enjoy it and fix it slowly. Sure the other posters are correct and that you will be upside down in it, but if you are not looking at a dollar for dollar investment, what dollar amount do you put on a driving a very cool convertible? I would kill for a 64.....in fact, I have been told of a widow in town with a 64 and a 69 judge, and I would take the 64 over the judge.... shhhhh
 

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Ok. I'll default to you guys on the desirability part, but I have never heard anybody say "boy I wish I had a '64." Most guys that like that look seem to want a '65.
 

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I've been into these cars for 35+ years, and even back then, '64's were very hard to find. The reason I ended up with '65's, '66's, and '67's is that there were simply more of them around, and they were cheap used cars. I almost got a very nice '64 back in '83, but the guy would not take less than $1200 for it, and $1000 was my top offer. Most people either love them or have no interest in them. No middle ground. I've always loved them.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I like both the 64& 65. They have that stripped down, go fast crazy kinetic feel. Like riding the cyclone at Coney Island. Sure there are cooler roller coasters. But for the sheer " holy sh#t" this is fast and raw, it can't be beat. (Think of any old wooden roller coaster). There is something just pure about them. There are plenary of faster cooler cars. But none can claim they were the first factory muscle car". Being the original of anything is just really neat. It is easier to copy and follow. It is hard to push the envelop, innovate and win. The 64 and 65 are all business. No flash or hype. Clean lines go fast gear total underdog winner. Delorean and his crew outsmarting corp brass. How often does that happen today in big corp culture . Renegade pioneer changes the course of an industry. Mid size family car racing a Ferrari. Just a great story. Any way. Thanks for all the advice.
 

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Some of you really chap my butt cheeks! $2500? I'LL TAKE ALL OF EM!!! Geez fellas, I've seen correct tri-power units sell for $2k, convertible top assemblies have to be worth a grand plus if they're working right, I personally sold a 64 hood for $1100. But if it's a whole car it's only worth $2500. Got it.

Ok, now that I got that outta my system I'ma pick another scab. The OP buys it, heads to AZ, NM, NV, wherever, comes home with a rust free shell and frame that's just parts, no numbers. Where does the REAL CAR begin and end? Drivetrain? Body? Frame? Paper and tags? How much, what percentage of the 1st car has to be kept intact to separate this from a clone/tribute/fake/whatever? I see number 1 PHS "papered" cars from this period (the 1st 2 yrs) trading around $50K plus. Add a bunch more for convertibles, 4 spds, tri-power (born with tri-power). 64 or 65, but clearly more 65s since twice the number of those were built. I don't wanna be rude, I enjoy the input from this community, but I swear sometimes I feel like it's 1988 again with the dollar figures bandied about vs the reality when you check the market. I'd bet a set of redlines that when you see a top dollar auction car sell big that it's right in every way. Doesn't have a J.C. Whitney steering wheel, paint is just right, proper paper, and all the things needed to make it a PHS show winner. The reality there? Some paint swabs and a little attention to detail vs hurry up and go for a ride. The cost to go all the way is pretty small vs the hard parts like sheet metal, paint, etc. Go ahead and wipe your feet on this if you must. This is what I'm seeing and I look dammed near every week. No offense intended but...next?
 

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Don't rain on my gto parade

The only way you can rain on my GTO parade is for me to put the convertible top down. All I have to do is put the convertible top up shift into 2nd gear and let it wind up to about 5100 rpm - blow it out little GTO as they say.
The sound of a real GTO is a true thing of beauty.
 

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My opinion is that the real car is drive train matching the body. Let's face facts. What made these cars great was three carbs sitting on top of a giant engine in a light package. Is the Statue of Liberty not real because they took it apart to rebuild I after 100 years? No way. Still real and stands for the same thing. Stuff wears out and needs repair. Question to TW is does it makes sense for him/her.


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