Rebuild engine concerns

2503 Views 60 Replies 14 Participants Last post by Goat noob, 2 mo ago

Goat noob

Discussion Starter · 3 mo ago

Well I just cracked my engine open today and while I didn't see any metal shavings in the bottom of the pan the oil does look a bit milky. I build this engine myself (first time) and broke it in myself. The engine probably had 30 miles on it at most. I pulled it to repair a leaky oil pan and/or rear main seal. I also noticed that my cam seems to be a little off the bearings... and the rear cap bearings have a little more wear around the ends than I expected. Let me know what your thoughts are. The engine runs strong but just leaking oil like a stuck pig. The internals had the slightest hint of gas smell as well. Go easy on me haha.

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PontiacJim

· #2 · 3 mo ago

Goat noob said:
Well I just cracked my engine open today and while I didn't see any metal shavings in the bottom of the pan the oil does look a bit milky. I build this engine myself (first time) and broke it in myself. The engine probably had 30 miles on it at most. I pulled it to repair a leaky oil pan and/or rear main seal. I also noticed that my cam seems to be a little off the bearings... and the rear cap bearings have a little more wear around the ends than I expected. Let me know what your thoughts are. The engine runs strong but just leaking oil like a stuck pig. The internals had the slightest hint of gas smell as well. Go easy on me haha. View attachment 163582
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Lifters do not ride center on a cam lobe - they ride a little offset by design to cause lifter rotation.

Bearings are not good at all. Something going on there. Scratched up for the most parts and then the sides at the bearing part show no wear at all. It can be the result of oil starvation - lack of oil due to not enough bearing clearance or loss of oil pressure.

Could be other issues like crank journals out of round or bent crank - both of which require a shop to check.

Did you also check for crankshaft endplay?

Here is a PDF that will have some bearing failure info:

https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/media/local-media-north-america/pdfs-&-thumbnails/catalogs-and-literature/engine-bearings/ceb-2-1114-engine-bearing-failures-brochure.pdf

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Goat noob

Discussion Starter · #3 · 3 mo ago

PontiacJim said:
Lifters do not ride center on a cam lobe - they ride a little offset by design to cause lifter rotation.

Bearings are not good at all. Something going on there. Scratched up for the most parts and then the sides at the bearing part show no wear at all. It can be the result of oil starvation - lack of oil due to not enough bearing clearance or loss of oil pressure.

Could be other issues like crank journals out of round or bent crank - both of which require a shop to check.

Did you also check for crankshaft endplay?

Here is a PDF that will have some bearing failure info:

https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/media/local-media-north-america/pdfs-&-thumbnails/catalogs-and-literature/engine-bearings/ceb-2-1114-engine-bearing-failures-brochure.pdf

I did not check for crankshaft endplay. I don't recall what my bearing clearance was when I pieced it together but it was in the safe range because I asked my machinist and friend that builds engines. I checked it with platigauge. I guess I will drop off my crank Monday when I go to pickup my oil pan and intake manifold from the machine shop. Do you think I would get an accurate reading on my bearing clearances now if I checked it again or is the wear going to affect the reading?

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PontiacJim

· #4 · 3 mo ago

Goat noob said:
I did not check for crankshaft endplay. I don't recall what my bearing clearance was when I pieced it together but it was in the safe range because I asked my machinist and friend that builds engines. I checked it with platigauge. I guess I will drop off my crank Monday when I go to pickup my oil pan and intake manifold from the machine shop. Do you think I would get an accurate reading on my bearing clearances now if I checked it again or is the wear going to affect the reading?

Get the crank mic'd by the machinist and he will tell you if you need to have the crank turned. I suspect he will, or at a minimum have the journals polished. I would also have him chamfer the oil holes in the crank pins - he will know what you mean. The bearings are toast and no need to check anything, so you will be getting new ones.

You want to check crankshaft end play which is also a means to align your thrust bearing halves.

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Goat noob

Discussion Starter · #5 · 3 mo ago

I believe he turned and polished the crank last year before I put it together. I'll see what he says Monday and keep you updated.

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geeteeohguy

· #6 · 3 mo ago

What Jim said. Cam looks great. Bearings are shot. There is something wrong with the crank/block saddles. I would pull a rod bearing or two and look at them as well. Here's a rod bearing out of the old 383 Chevy in my Corvette after I tore it down for a rebuild. This bearing is 40+ years old and the engine had seen a lot of service. The bearings in my '67 GTO looked the same, only with less wear evident when I tore it partially down for a complete re-seal and rear main seal 12 years ago. That engine had 80.000 miles on it at the time, and now is about 90,000. Your engine needs forensic diagnosis, for sure.

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geeteeohguy

· #7 · 3 mo ago

Post some pics of the crank. I'm betting you can drag your fingernail across the journals and feel grooving/ribbing, by looking at the bearing photo. The 'milk' you see in your pan that looks like gray metalflake is bearing material from your bearings. It should not be there at all.

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Goat noob

Discussion Starter · #8 · 2 mo ago

My fingernail didn't catch anywhere on the crank but I'm sure it's not as smooth as the day it went into the block. The rod bearings don't look much better sadly. I also cant seem to remove my timing chain to take out the crank.

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Goat noob

Discussion Starter · #9 · 2 mo ago

Goat noob said:
My fingernail didn't catch anywhere on the crank but I'm sure it's not as smooth as the day it went into the block. The rod bearings don't look much better sadly. I also cant seem to remove my timing chain to take out the crank.

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PontiacJim

· #10 · 2 mo ago

Goat noob said:
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Crank looks OK, but don't assume either. Have the shop look at it and check it. Again, ask him to chamfer the oil holes while he has it. Not a big operation, just a little grinding on the oil holes to "oblong" them a bit.

Bearings are toast.

Plugs all look rich - for the most part.

Timing chain has to come off with the cam and crank gears at the same time. Usually I slip the cam gear/crank gear together a little at a time as the chain doesn't bend so you can only slip a little at a time. Once the cam gear is free of the cam snout, then the gear will drop down and the chain can be removed freeing your crank. You may have to gently pry behind the gears to get some leverage as the woodruff key holds the gears pretty snug.

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geeteeohguy

· #11 · 2 mo ago

What Jim said. Did you check the bearing clearances when you assembled the engine? Crank looks like it can be saved, but something is wrong. Is the oiling up to snuff? Crank should look like the day it went into the block 80,000 miles later.

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Goat noob

Discussion Starter · #12 · 2 mo ago

geeteeohguy said:
What Jim said. Did you check the bearing clearances when you assembled the engine? Crank looks like it can be saved, but something is wrong. Is the oiling up to snuff? Crank should look like the day it went into the block 80,000 miles later.

I checked the bearing clearance on the rods and mains with pastigauge. I don't recall what the readings were but the machinist said it was good. I primed the oil system before the first startup until oil was flowing through every pushrod. Can I take out my crank and reinstall the oil pump and pickup and give it some oil and prime it to verify I'm getting oil in the bottom end?

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PontiacJim

· #13 · 2 mo ago

Goat noob said:
I checked the bearing clearance on the rods and mains with pastigauge. I don't recall what the readings were but the machinist said it was good. I primed the oil system before the first startup until oil was flowing through every pushrod. Can I take out my crank and reinstall the oil pump and pickup and give it some oil and prime it to verify I'm getting oil in the bottom end?

No, not even worth your time.

Get a new pump and screen and hardened oil pump shaft. Butler sells the 60PSI pump with the better screen mesh size. They also have the oil pump shaft.

You may have not used the plastigauge correctly and got false readings.

You may not be able to figure this out on your own and may need the machine shop to check things out - they may find the issue right away.

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Goat noob

Discussion Starter · #14 · 2 mo ago

PontiacJim said:
No, not even worth your time.

Get a new pump and screen and hardened oil pump shaft. Butler sells the 60PSI pump with the better screen mesh size. They also have the oil pump shaft.

You may have not used the plastigauge correctly and got false readings.

You may not be able to figure this out on your own and may need the machine shop to check things out - they may find the issue right away.

I appreciate everyone's help! I'll keep you all updated on it. This is a bummer but I'm glad it was caught before further damage could have occurred.

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geeteeohguy

· #15 · 2 mo ago

Goat noob said:
I appreciate everyone's help! I'll keep you all updated on it. This is a bummer but I'm glad it was caught before further damage could have occurred.

Yes, you got it in time, most likely. If the clearances are right and it is oiling, there should be no issues. The clearances should be checked by a machinist, as Jim stated. The crank journals may not be even all the way across, and this needs to be checked. It needs to be 100% true and mic the same all the way across the journal.

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lust4speed

· #16 · 2 mo ago

Wipe the worse bearing down with brake clean and post up another photo. The oil film could be making things look much worse. The engine block and parts should have been cleaned better, but figure most of the contamination has been swept away into the oil filter. I suspect the oil galleries were not completely cleaned and they are one of the prime areas that will come back and bite you.

Would also like to see a close up of the worse rod bearing after cleaning. They look pretty bad in the photo, but a better view would help.

The bevel I'm seeing at the ends of the main bearings is pretty common anymore. For whatever reason the manufacturers get carried away with the taper. Well, they also get carried away creating other problems that would have been unheard of even 10 years ago. Babbitt thickness is all over the map now, and if you don't have enough clearance, pick up another set and they just might be too loose. Quality control has left the building...

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armyadarkness

· #17 · 2 mo ago

PontiacJim said:
Bearings are not good at all.

I don't know much about the topic, but that was my opinion as well. They should be evenly worn and polished looking.

Goat noob

Discussion Starter · #18 · 2 mo ago

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I'll have to dig up my invoice of what was done on the block and crank before I assembled it. I know I had to order .010 main bearings and .020 rod bearings.

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Cased

· #19 · 2 mo ago

Is that oil seal stuck to the crank ?

It looks like there is silicone under where the rear cap should of been tight to the block on one side

Looks like dirty galleries as was said before but also did you torque with oil or any any lube

Goat noob

Discussion Starter · #20 · 2 mo ago

Cased said:
Is that oil seal stuck to the crank ?

It looks like there is silicone under where the rear cap should of been tight to the block on one side

Looks like dirty galleries as was said before but also did you torque with oil or any any lube

I put a tiny bit of engine oil on my main cap bolts but when I removed them they seemed like they were filled with oil. I followed instructions in Rocky rotellas "how to build pontiac V8's" so I did the correct orientation and torque sequence on everything.

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