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Discussion Starter #1
So you're a sick senior citizen and the government says there is no
nursing home available for you - what do you do?

Our plan gives anyone 65 years or older a gun and 4 bullets. You are
allowed to shoot 2 Congressmen and 2 Senators - not necessarily dead!

Of course, this means you will be sent to prison where you will get 3
meals a day, a roof over your head, central heating, and all the
health care you need! New teeth? - no problem. Need glasses? -
great. New hip, knees, kidney, lungs, heart? All covered.

(And your kids can come and visit you as often as they do now).

And who will be paying for all of this? The same government that just
told you that they cannot afford for you to go into a home.

Plus, because you are a prisoner, you don't have to pay any income
taxes anymore.

IS THIS A GREAT COUNTRY OR WHAT?
 

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That's what I'm afraid of..........
The abortion topic is heating up. This was raised by pro life groups and senators were on board to block the bill. This "president" stated emphatically abortions will not be in the bill, he "signed an executive order to not allow it." Well, add that to the list of lies. Coming out now it is, it was washed over and hidden. Pennsylvania along with numerous other states are receiving funding to aid those who cannot afford HC to get abortions. Its being reported on the news here- radio, (NOT by his approved media outlets). I read on TV where one excerpt stated once a person pays their deductible the Feds will cover 80% of it. One can only imagine what else is coming.

Death panels when mentioned previous was viewed as outrageous. NO ONE will be turned down or denied coverage because of their age. Anyone reading up on Berwick the new head of health care? Palin was vilified for that statement on death panels. Berwick the new Health Czar has stated rationing WILL BE NECESSARY the only question just how much and to what extent. i.e. senior citizens being denied. Anyone see his video on this? WE WILL BE REDISTRIBUTING wealth he stated. Healthcare is a form of redistribution. Think this new health care is going to be just wunnerful? Don't want it? Your employer dropping you because its cheaper to pay the fine. You don't want it?? The IRS will be on your tail. They are the HC police. Still dont want it? Enjoy your tax refund at the end of the year? You refuse to pay for HC, the IRS WILL confiscate your tax refund. Ain't it great?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'm not too thrilled about the bill. I could care less if the govt insurance covers an abortion. Law isn't supposed to be about people's religios believes. I'd rather pay to kill someones kid rahter then the raise it.

I also just don't understand how insurance companies come up with their rates. Julie has migrains, she is surcharged almost 40% for it but her policy excludes much of what is needed. How can you surcharge someone but then not cover it as a pre-existing condition? Shouldn't she have the option to pay the surcharge to cover it or pay a regualr rate and then just pay out of pocket for anything that happens due to the condition?

I personally think we do need reform, but I don't see how changing the whole system is the way to do it. I can see changing things as we go or fixing issues there are now, but a complete overhall is just going to create just as many issues but in different areas.
 

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The abortion thing is not all together religious, it is using YOUR tax money to kill. The same people that are advocates against capital punishment that support this? Can you spell hypocrite? It also has to do with the lies in this bill that enabled the HC bill to be passed. The HC bill is full of lies & deception. That is the heart of the issue. Insurance companies set rates just like your local auto service centers. The more insurance is used the more the rates rise etc. No one disputes there has to be some type of regulation this travesty is NOT it. 80% of people surveyed stated they do not want it and want to keep their HC. Of the those who are not covered which is about 20 some % of the country, when you factor out those who choose NOT to want HC, those who are illegal, the actual number according to pollsters is in the 12-14% range.

Thinking one is getting away from an insurance conglomerate who is raping you in premiums, and put faith in the FEDS, that they will control the cost, along with services in ER's which by the way was stated anticipate longer ER waits, and allowing someone in a FED office dictate exactly what they will cover you for, well they may as well walk off the cliff now. HC hasn't been implemented yet and Berwick has stated you will be rationed after the "president" said that was a scare tactic orchestrated by those who oppose the governmental take over of HC which by the way 60-70 overall of the country oppose.

My wife just had a spinal fusion her surgeon stated to her and I. DO IT NOW because if we wait it may take you years to get it done. Other people I have talked to had their surgeons say the same thing in particular elective surgeries. People I know who want barriatric intervention done that most insurance companies cover, were told in a group by a surgeon, the wait may exceed 5 years for this procedure once this HC goes into effect. There is a mad dash on for people to get this procedure along with other necessary procedures done.
I would expect a repel of this to be undertaken in due time once elections come about but it is unlikely it will happen as many laws have the HC intertwined in it. Think things are bad now? HAHA.
 

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I'm not too thrilled about the bill. I could care less if the govt insurance covers an abortion. Law isn't supposed to be about people's religios believes. I'd rather pay to kill someones kid rahter then the raise it.
I couldn't disagree more. Beyond religeous beliefs, too many people,(women and men because alot of men push for this too), use abortions as a form of birth control. No, I don't want to pay for that. As far as your last statement, you may want to find a mirror and take a hard look at yourself.

Think this new health care is going to be just wunnerful? Don't want it? Your employer dropping you because its cheaper to pay the fine. You don't want it?? The IRS will be on your tail. They are the HC police. Still dont want it? Enjoy your tax refund at the end of the year? You refuse to pay for HC, the IRS WILL confiscate your tax refund. Ain't it great?
You nailed it!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I couldn't disagree more. Beyond religeous beliefs, too many people,(women and men because alot of men push for this too), use abortions as a form of birth control. No, I don't want to pay for that. As far as your last statement, you may want to find a mirror and take a hard look at yourself.
I don't want to pay for it either, but I also don't want my tax money going to a parent who chose to have the kid and couldn't afford it in the first place. A few $100 for the procedure is alot better then the potential for years of gov't support.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I couldn't disagree more. Beyond religeous beliefs, too many people,(women and men because alot of men push for this too), use abortions as a form of birth control. No, I don't want to pay for that. As far as your last statement, you may want to find a mirror and take a hard look at yourself.
I don't want to pay for it either, but I also don't want my tax money going to a parent who chose to have the kid and couldn't afford it in the first place. A few $100 for the procedure is alot better then the potential for years of gov't support. This is all in reference to people who chose not to have the kid, not people who are forced because of medical reasons.
 

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I don't want to pay for it either, but I also don't want my tax money going to a parent who chose to have the kid and couldn't afford it in the first place. A few $100 for the procedure is alot better then the potential for years of gov't support.
Thats been going on for ages. Its an existing entitlement. Under the HC plan the entitlements are going to GROW and GROW and GROW. 100.00 for an abortion?? Only a few?
 

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The people having abortions aren't the ones you would end up supporting anyhow.

The goal of the welfare Mom i to have as many kids as possible from unknown fathers. They would never abort their meal ticket.

The number one reason for an abortion is fetus selection. The number one sex of a fetus aborted is female. The numbers are over 90% of the abortions that are for gender selection are female. Over half of the abortions are for gender selection.

You always hear about the mothers health and rape cases as being reasons we need to keep abortion legal. The cold hard facts are .5 percent of all abortions are because the woman was raped and 3.5 percent are where the mother has a health issue. That's less than 5 percent of the abortions in the US.

The number 2 reason is a situation where there may be a birth defect and it's in the 30 percent range of abortions.

As for the healthcare bill, it's just not right to steal from one person and give it to another person period. That's what any government program does.

If you want to fix healthcare, start where the problems are. Open up the insurance market to allow cross state borders coverage. The competition will fix issues where companies don't cover things and it will help lower the cost. Competition also will make the services received better.

Tort reform. Right now almost half of our healthcare dollars go towards paying insurance companies for malpractice insurance, paying people that have sued and the big one is paying for unnecessary procedures and tests so doctors can cover their butts.

We could cut healthcare costs in half if Obama would have done that, but he he's a lawyer and just like most of the House and Senate, the lawyers make more laws to make other lawyers rich.

The goal isn't to fix the problem, but to make it worse so the government has to take it over.

Think about this, how many pages is the Constitution???? 6 total pages of handwritten material. If it was typed it would be 2-3. Our founding fathers set out the guidelines for the greatest nation on earth in 3 pages and Obama can't get the healthcare bill under 1500 pages. Simple bills are now 150-300 pages. Our government is a complete failure.
 
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