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Discussion Starter · #101 · (Edited)
Now for the most famous '72 Bird Stocker.

It has been driven by Brad Burton, for several years now. Brad is of course Scott Burton's son. So, Scott provided all the knowhow for the initial set-up of the car. I'm sure Brad has learned a lot & is now quite knowledgeable himself. A few years back he moved to WA state, IIRC. So, he probably don't get to help his Dad work on the cars as much as he'd like to.

It has nothing to do with this subject, but I forgot to mention that Scott is an airline pilot, or at least was. I've read that he flies 747's.

I'll have to look up some info & links to post. But, I'll be able to tell when he began racing the '72 Bird, in nat & div events.

I think he won 2 div championships, maybe in 2010 & 2012. I'll check. Not even gonna try to link all his nat & div wins.

OK, the 1st year I found him on DRC was in 2005. He was driving Scott's '71 Formula. Then the next year he's listed driving a '72, with his Dad on the same lists, driving the '71. So, he's been driving more than 15 years.


This article has some good info. They began building Brad's car in '04. In 2010, Brad won 2 nat events & 1 div race & was nat Stock champ. He & his Dad also got some other awards that year.

Burton Racing Wins NHRA Stock Eliminator National Championship and Joins K&N

Here's a DRC article about the 2010 champ win.


Here's another K&N article that was written after Brad won the 2012 Winter Nats. Has a lot of quotes from Brad.


This was posted on the Drag Results site, in 2012, after a div 6 race win.

"...Brad Burton took another step closer to the NHRA Lucas Oil Stock National Championship with a win over Dave Barcelon. This is Burton’s fifth win of the year increasing his points lead to more than 200..."

How 'bout a father-son final @ a national event. How special that must have been. That win also helped Brad win the 2012 championship.


Can ya'll stand some Brad & Dad video ?


You can find other YouTube videos of Brad wins. Here's something I didn't know. In 2012, when Brad won his 2nd championship, fellow Pontiac racer, Leo Glasbrenner, who I've covered here, was RU.


Well, I could post TONS more about Brad' wins. But that's plenty for now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #102 ·
I'm sure there have also been quite a few '72 Birds run in SS. Can't think of any recently. But I have pics of a few.

Bob Michael has posted that he had run a '72 455HO powered Bird, then later changed it over to a '73, with SD455 power. Some pics I have of it shows an Insurance name on the side. IIRC, he said some of his kin sold that insurance. From the pics I have, it appears that the car was running in div 1. Then it appears with the name Michael, plus 2 others, on the door. Appears to have the same "Ellison" decal over the rear wheel well. So, I assume it's the same car as in pic #1.

The other pics of it have Bob Michael's #3240 on it. Appears to have slapper bars on it. I think that back in the old days the SS guys were not allowed to have the fancy ladder bar & 4-link suspensions. But, they were probably allowed to run the biggest tire that would fit in the factory fender well. Then, at some point, they were allowed to install bigger "tubs", narrowed rear ends, 14x32 slicks, ladder bars, 4-link, wheelie bars, etc. There have been LOTS of changes in Stock & SS rules, thru the years.

When they gutted the Stock rules for '72, Gary Moore switched over to to running a '72 455HO powered Formula, in SS. With it, he set the SS/F mph record.

Another gold Formula had Barnett on the side. Don't have any performance specs for it. But I do have a pic of it @ Indy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #103 ·
Now for some '73 Birds.

There have been lots of these run, in Stock & SS. The main reason, especially in the early days was the SD455 engine. Since I've already mentioned that Bob Michael switched his '72 455HO Bird over to a '73 SD455 Bird, I'll begin with it.

It appears that he painted it Black, right away, since all my pics show it black. As I'm sure most here know, the '73 SD455 Formula came with a T/A shaker hood. Not sure, but I seem to remember that he won a nat event with it. If I find any good win info I'll post it later.

He later sold it to Don Kennedy. As you can see in the pics, Don painted it Blue. As we'll see later on, Don switched over to GT Super Stock, running an SD455 in a 3rd gen Bird body. He's still racing today, in GT SS. But, I'll have an entire post on his GT cars, maybe 2.
 

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Discussion Starter · #104 · (Edited)
There have been a couple of more pretty famous '73 SD455 drag cars. The next one we'll look at was the Herslow & Morlock Bird. They started out running it in Stock. The early pics I have of it show it in a lower class. So, I don't know that it was a factory SD455 car. But it later moved up to a higher class, which would have required either an upgrade to an SD455 engine, a weight break change, or a horsepower hit from NHRA. It had only "455" decals on the shaker, rather than "SD-455". But, I realize that anybody could add or change shaker decals.

In pic #1, it is unlettered. It was running in G class, & was running Truman Fields' '68 Bird, as it was lettered in '73. So, I assume that pic was made in either '73 or '74.

Don't know when it was set, but it had "NHRA Nat Record Holder" over the rear wheel wells, when it was still running G/SA. It made the cover of SS&DI mag, which is a famous pic in old-school Pontiac drag racing circles. In that pic it was marked E/SA. As said, don't know if an engine switch changed the class, or an NHRA change.

It was later switched over to SS. Phil Szupka bought & raced it for a while. In the SS pics I have of it, there is writing over the doors saying that it was an NHRA rec holder in '74, '75, '76, & '77. Don't know if any of those last rec were in SS or not. Don't know exactly when it was changed over to SS.

The last I knew of it, Phil Monteith bought it, put a '74 front & rear on it, & raced it with a 400 engine. Sal Biondo got his 1st nat event win in it. We'll talk about Phil & Sal more later, especially Phil.
 

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Discussion Starter · #105 ·
Another famous '73 SD455 Bird belongs to John Clegg, from South Texas.

He bought it new & got the D/S win @ Indy, in '73. Didn't race it in Stock very long. Most early pics I've seen show it running either SS/I or SS/J. It was a real SD455 Formula, which meant it had a T/A shaker hood.

I'm sorry to report that after a few years John swapped over to Chevy powered, to go quicker. :(

BUT, I'm happy to report that in recent years they did a resto & upgrade to current SS specs, and with SD455 Pontiac power, It is currently the quickest reg SS class Pontiac powered car there is, running some mid 9's. There are several GT class Pontiac powered cars quicker, but no regular SS class cars are. It has a 4-speed stick. John's son, J.B. Clegg drives it.

I suppose that in Pontiac drag racing circles this car is sort of a hero.

We'll talk more about the Clegg's later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #106 · (Edited)
As far as I know, there is only 1 SD455 Stocker currently active.

It was not an original SD455 car. It ran with a D-port 455 for years. It was raced as a '73 Formula. The owner is Michael Brand. Scott Burton helped him set the car up for racing. So it's run pretty strong the whole time. Michael has got some class wins. His wife has driven it some too. They've only had the SD455 in it for a couple of years.

I'll have to look up some of the car's performance numbers & wins. But I know it's run some mid 10's. The color is now baby blue. So it's quite easy to ID, either with the scooped hood or the shaker hood

I know he won $3k for the RU spot @ a big race last year. :)

He won this div 5 race in '13.


Got the G/SA class win @ the '15 Northern SPORTS nats.

He got a holeshot class win @ the '15 Thunder Valley Nats.


Also got the Stock win @ that race !


He was RU & class winner @ the '16 4-Wide.


He picked up a class win @ the '16 Mile-High Nats.


Got the holeshot class win @ Indy '16.


Lindsey got RU @ this div 2 race in '17.


He got a holeshot class win @ the '18 gators.

GAINESVILLE - Stock Eliminator Round 1 Class Eliminations

Well, we can see from this that Michael's Bird is very competitive.

I also just found a post saying Michael's Bird is the same Bluebird Larry Maxwell & his wife raced as a '72 model, probably with 455HO power.
 

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Discussion Starter · #107 · (Edited)
Before we get too far away from Michael Brand, lets talk about a '73 that he helped with.

After he moved from CO to the Southeast, Michael didn't find many Pontiac racers. I think I read that he converted a Chevy racer for a brief period of time. The guys name is Adam Davis. Car has '71 front fenders, with the vents in 'em. But Adam ran it as a '73 Formula.

He ran the '73 D-port 455, just like Michael was running at the time. Don't know exactly how much Michael helped with the car. Probably a good bit. Anyhow, they got it running quite well. I think it ran more than a sec under it's index @ Indy. But, I'll check & see what I can find.

I know it has changed hands a couple of times, since Adam had it. A CA racer named C.W. Hoefer has had it now for a few years. It is still very competitive. And it's easy to spot at any race track. It's loud yellow.

@ this div 2 race, Adam had go 7 rounds to win it. Cut some great lights along the way.


During the '15 US Nats F/SA class elims, Adam cut a perfect .000 light & ran a 10.802, which was more than a sec under his index & good enuff for #43 on the Stock Q-list. But in the class final, his opponent cut a .002 light, to Adam's .028 light. So, Adam couldn't quite get to the line 1st. By the way, Michael Brand was the G/SA winner. I'm sure they ran different classes, on purpose.


He was #1 qualifier @ this div 2 race.

LODRS 2-6 - Stock Eliminator Qualifying, Saturday Final Order

He won another 7-rounder @ Zmax.


He won the Auto Combo class at the 4-Wide Nats. Michael was the G/SA class winner.


He won this div 2 race, with a final round double breakout win.


@ Indy '17, Adam was #74 with a 10.827, which was more than a sec under his 11.85 index.


In Sept of '17, he put the Yellow Bird up for sale.


@ Indy '18, Brad Plourd was racing the Bird. He qualified #62 with a 10.798.


The Yellow Bird still ran a sec under, after C.W. Hoefer got it.

 

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Discussion Starter · #108 ·
There have been other quick '73 Birds.

One belongs to Allen Hollingsworth. It will also run a sec under it's index.


Another is driven by Ryan Schloe, out on the West coast. I think I may have mentioned that he ran it as '71 model for a while. But, because the #4X heads make more power than the #66 heads, the '73 combo is more competitive.

Ryan's Bird will also run about a sec under, with the '73 combo.


In pic #1, there are 3 Pontiacs. Don Turk's T-37, Allen Hollingworth's '73 Bird, & Todd Kuhn's '70 GTO.

This post is under construction.
 

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Discussion Starter · #109 · (Edited)
Before we leave '73 models, I'll mention 3 more.

Jack Mullins put one together to run as an SD455 powered T/A. I read that he lost a nat event class race to Bob Michael @ the Gators in '78, IIRC. So, he decided to sell the car. We saw it @ the '78 Cajun Nats & took the pics of it.


Glen Tinsley bought it & raced it for a while. Did pretty good with it & set some records.


But, he had a problem getting use to breakout style racing. He'd lock the brakes up @ the finish line sometimes. Blew out several sets of the thin Moroso Front Runner tires. You can see the tire smoke in pic #4. And you can see that the car is still on the track, with a flat tire, in pic #5.

Lloyd Robinson also raced a '73 SD455 powered T/A.

And, Russ Abrams also raced a '73 SD455 Formy.

I have no specific wins to report for these cars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #110 · (Edited)
OK, lets move on to '74 model Birds.

I'll begin with the quickest one I know of, against it's index. It was driven by Bob Mulry. It was part of the A&M (Aceves & Mulry) Racing team I've mentioned.

It set the nat record in J/SA, K/SA, & L/SA. I'll post pics of those 3 records. They had to install all the T/A parts, in order to qualify for the L/SA class. Most of the pics I have show it with a Formula hood. It ran the 4X head 400 engine.

It most always qualified near the top of the Q-list & was #1 qualifier several times. Some of those ET's were 1,5 secs under it's index. Lots of 'em were 1.3 & 1.4 under. It was simply one of the quickest Stockers running, in that time period, against it's index. I'll try to look up & post some of the #1's & really quick ET's.

When Bob sent me the nat record copies & a few pics, he mentioned that there was a possibility that they MIGHT do a little more racing with it. Not holding my breath on that.

I have the record certificates in the order they were set. K/SA in May '03. L/SA in July '03. J/SA in '04. For that J/SA record, I don't know if they got an NHRA hp hit over the winter, or if they just wanted to ad another record, so removed some weight. Never thought to ask. But, since they swapped out the Formula & T/A parts to run L/SA, just removing some weight to run J/SA wouldn't have been a problem for them.

#1 @ 1.579 under.


#1 @ 1.502 under.


#1 @ 1.437 under.


#1 @ 1.431 under.


#1 @ 1.413 under.


@ the '04 US Nats he was the K/SA class winner & #4 qualifier.


INDY - Stock Eliminator Qualifying, Final Order

Well I could post lots more. But I think ya'll get the picture. In '03 & '04 the Bird was awesome, against it's index.

Stockers can't produce quick times like that now, or the horsepower police will put a quick stop to it. They can make some cars almost non-competitive in heads-up runs, with just one hp hit. So, the Stock & SS racers today are careful to keep their times below a certain level. Most try to never run a whole sec under their index. That way they won't draw as much attention from NHRA. That has produced LOTS of "sandbaggin". Some run heavy to slow their car down. Some de-tune, or maybe change their shift points. There are lots of ways to go slower.

But hey, if you wanna play the game, you must abide by the rules, or accept the consequences, if caught.
 

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Discussion Starter · #111 · (Edited)
Let's talk about some more '74 Bird Stockers in this post.

Lindy Lindholm raced one, out on the West coast, 'til somebody stole it, a few years back. Leo Glasbrenner, with a lot of help from the police, finally located it. Leo repaired & updated everything & surprised Lindy with it at a race. I thought that was a cool story of one racer helping another. :cool:

Lindy won the J/SA class @ the '14 Vegas Toyota Nats.


He was #5 @ the '16 Winter Nats @ more than a sec under his index.


He won the I/SA class in '16, @ both Vegas races.



He began 2017 strong with a #1 qualifying position @ the Winter Nats.


Dwaine Davis is still racing a '74 Stocker, up in div 5. His only claim to fame, that know of, is the Mile-High Nats RU, to the Pontiac Wagon of Gary Riley. We covered that earlier in the thread. He has a nice '74 Bird Stocker that will run safely, more than a half sec under it's index.

John Clegg's "Mission Garage" has been sponsoring a '74 T/A Stocker for several years. There have been at least 2 different drivers. I ASSUME that John or J.B. Clegg own it, but not sure. Has SD-455 on the shaker scoop. So, I suppose it's SD455 powered. I don't remember any wins for the car. But, it has run almost a sec under it's index, which was good enuff for #18 on this Q-list.


Devon Dioguardi, who now drives the car, is John Clegg's grandson. He got RU @ this Topeka div race, last summer. Noticed that he cut a perfect light in the semi-final bye run, but left too soon in the final. :(

LODRS 5-2 - Stock Eliminator Final, Round 7 Eliminations .

I think all 3 of these are 11 sec cars. Pretty sure none have run into the 10's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #112 · (Edited)
Time for some '74 SS Birds.

I'll start with the most famous one I know of. It was made famous initially by West Coast guys who ran H-O Racing Specialties. Some of you younger guys made have never heard of them. They not only built & raced Pontiacs but sold parts for Pontiacs & had a regular newsletter, with Pontiac pics & featured cars, many of which were Stock or SS cars. Our '68 Bird was the feature car in a '75 issue. I've posted some others here, earlier. You could write H-O & they would send you there recommendations. I used some of their info when building my 2 Stockers. Hey, we didn't have the internet back then. Info was mostly words, printed on paper. For Pontiac guys, there was mostly H-O on the West coast & Nunzi Romano on the East coast. Lots of the older Pontiacs I've posted pics of here had H-O decals on 'em.

The famous H-O Bird was a red '74 SD455 powered T/A. In '77, it set the SS/KA nat record @ 11.31. That sounds slow, now, since the Stockers run quicker. I also have pics of both a black & a white Bird with H-O on 'em. Don't know who owned 'em, or who drove 'em. H-O may have owned 'em, or just sponsored 'em.

We saw the red H-O Bird run @ the '78 Cajun Nats. But for some reason which I can't explain, we didn't take any close-up pics of it. Couldn't get very close to the starting line, so the pics of it are a little fuzzy. I don't have any info about any races they may have won. But I'll post a pic of their nat record certificate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #113 · (Edited)
So, what ever happened to that red H-O car ?

I don't know it's exact history. But I have one pic of it, with the H-O part removed from the door. The name on the window is Larry Pacey. So, I assume he owned it for a while. Has a div 2 perm number. So, the car was probably in Florida, or at least the Southeast. Larry had a big Pontiac wagon drag car.

As for the next chapter, I've read it 2 ways. 1st way says that Glen Tinsley bought it, & raced it for a while. Glen posted that he later traded it to John Clegg for a nice enclosed trailer John had.

Somebody else posted that John Clegg had bought it & leased it to Glen, while he raced it. I'll post the mag pic which shows it & John Cleggs '73 SD455 Bird in a posed shot. In pic #3 you'll notice that Glenn said he was running a 400 engine at that time. Claims to have been #3 qualifier at the '84 Gators. Also claims to have been #1 qualifier @ the Baton Rouge div 4 points race & won a race. Those results could have been easily checked, at the time, so I suppose it's true.

One thing I do know, for sure, is that The Clegg's ended up with it. J.B. Clegg raced it for a while, with both an auto & a stick trans.

Here's a quote from Craig Hendrickson, himself, on the PY forum, back in 2010.

"...my 455SD race car is now owned by J.B. Clegg in Victoria, TX. It runs 10.40s in NHRA SS/J."

There are lots of Q-lists showing J.B. driving it back then, posted on DRC. Here's one from the '09 Cajuns, He ran SS/JA & was #33 @ more than a sec under it's index.


Then, at some point, they did a complete resto & upgrade. There are lots of pics of this project on the Mission Garage website. I didn't like the paint scheme, at all. Had what appeared to be huge bullet holes, on the sides. Anyhow, this time they went with a 4-speed stick. J.B. eventually got it to run down close to the mid-9's. The significance of that is that it was the quickest ET any regular SS class Pontiac powered Pontiac had ever run. The previous quickest was the John Angeles '69 RAIV powered Bird, driven by his daughter Keri, which has been mentioned earlier in the thread. I've read that happened in 2000. I'll post a link to one of the quick times the '74 Bird turned, along with some pics of it, after H-O sold it.

Here's a 2018 Houston race, where it was #12, with a 9.62, which was almost a sec under.


OK, ya'll can click on the Mission Garage photos link, then scroll down to near the bottom of the page to see "JB's Race Car Rebuild". There are several galleries, showing pics of the resto/rebuild/upgrade project. There are obviously lots of other pics & videos that might be of interest to Pontiac guys. I've enjoyed some of 'em myself. But, be aware that John's 3rd gen Bird is NOT Pontiac powered. I think it's engine used some sort of BBC based platform. :( He even switched his original '73 SD455 Bird over to non-Pontiac power, way back yonder. But, thankfully, as we've seen, it now uses Pontiac power & is THE quickest active reg SS class Pontiac powered car. So, the Clegg's own the 2 quickest reg SS class Pontiac powered Pontiacs in history.

John and Judy Clegg's Mission Garage - Photos & Video

Here's a couple of posts from Craig Hendrickson, about the car.


 

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Discussion Starter · #114 ·
OK, here's 7 more '74 Birds that ran SS.

Johnny Duncan built quite a few Pontiac drag cars. Some are still running.

Bill Foder's son, also named Bill, races a former nat events winning '72 Stocker, as we've seen earlier.

We've also seen the Reiter Bird, as a Stocker.

Also, the Bird that Sal Biondo drove to his 1st nat event win was the original Herslow & Morlock '73 T/A, which Phill Monteith changed over to a '74 model, which has already been mentioned.

Wilbert Thornton's Bird is still active. At this '21 div 1 points race it was #47, with a 10.59.

 

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Discussion Starter · #115 · (Edited)
Notice !

It's quite possible that I could miss some cars that should be included in some of these groups. If any of ya'll know of any, please post that info. And if you have decent pics of those cars, post 'em. If you know of the cars, but don't have pics, you can still post the info. I'll try to help find some pics.

When I think of '75 model Pontiac Stock/SS cars, only one comes to mind.

The '75 is a blue Formy, which has been raced for years by div 6 racer, Ryan Warter. He has won several events, including a big win @ the Northwest Nats, which was an All-Pontiac final against Randi Lyn Shipp's '67 Bird. In this video clip Ryan mentions that he was RU to Pontiac racer Brad Burton, at a previous race there. Pretty cool to be in 2 All-Pontiac Stock finals at a nat event. :cool:


Brad hasn't beaten Ryan every time they've raced. Ryan won this final round at a div 6 race.


Don't know the car's quickest time. It qualified with a .940 under, 11.51, @ this race.

 

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Discussion Starter · #116 · (Edited)
OK, it's time for '76 Birds.

Just as for the '75, I know of only 1. It's a base model, with a plain flat hood. It was raced for several years by Mike Morgan. You'll see that name again when we get to the '77 model Birds.

Mike raced it for several years. It won the K/SA class at Indy, in '11 & '14. He was #24 qualifier in '11, @ more than a sec under.

.

In '14 he ran an 11.584, to easily win the K/SA class. That was more than a sec under his 12.65 index. Don't know what his best-ever time was.


He won 4 rounds, then went a little too quick in round 5. But hey, a class win & 4 round wins @ Indy ain't a bad showing.


Here's and ad for when he sold it. He mentions Parsons & Myers & Heads-Up. Ya'll may remember me mentioning P&M, back when talkin about Bill Rink's '74 GTO. Those 2 businesses have built some top notch Stock/SS engines.


Mike sold it to Kevin Love, in Canada. Kevin says he won't get to race it much, because it's a long trip to a track. I think his closest nat event is @ BIR in Brainard MN. I think he may have also made a few div 5 races.

@ the '15 Lucas Oil Nats @ BIR, he won the K/SA class & was the highest Pontiac qualifier, @ #12.



I only have 4 decent pics, & one of them is sorta fuzzy.

Note: For anyone interested in seeing more pics. Many of these cars I'm talkin about have pics posted on the Auto Imagery Site. For those who are not familiar with it. They sell drag car pics. But, they'll let you look, for free. Catch is, they now have a very noticeable copyright notice across the pic. But it's small enuff print so that you can get a good look at the cars. They have 6 pics of this car, after Kevin Love put "Westward Preowned Cars & Trucks", on the doors.

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com/search?I_DSC=kevin+love&G_ID=&C_ID=&I_DSC_AND=t&_ACT=usrSearch
 

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Discussion Starter · #117 · (Edited)
OK, it's time for '77 Birds.

There are quite a few I can mention. I suppose the 1st one should be the "Kemo Sabe" Stocker. It was raced for years by Don Holmes. His son, Rob, or Robbie, is still racing it.

The earliest pic I have of it, I've already posted in the Bob Mulry post. But, I'll post it here, again. To me, it's sort of a famous pic, because it's a couple of the most competitive Pontiac powered Stockers of that time period, running in the class final @ Indy. It's a little fuzzy, because I had to enlarge it from a very small pic. Would love to have a large clear pic of it, in case anybody knows where I can get one.

I'll go back & pull up a few Q-lists to show that it usually qualified high on the Q-sheet, when Don was driving it.

#2 @ the '99 Craftsman Nats.


#4 @ 1.264 under @ the '99 US Nats.


How 'bout a #3 @ 1.309 under ?


Also got K/SA win.


#2 @ Indy 2000, & K/SA class winner. Notice that it's listed as a '78 model. I think all you have to change is maybe the grills, to change from '77 to '78 or vice versa. Pontiac guys have swapped back & forth between years, to get the most competitive combo, at the time.


#13 @ the '04 US Nats, & RU to Bob Mulry in class K/SA.



#1 @ The '05 Pontiac Nats.


Since Rob has been racing it, he has done well. I'll post some links to prove it.


#26 @ Indy '09 @ 1.185 under.


He won the J/SA class @ this '14 SPORTSnationals race. For the rest of this thread I'll abbreviate SPORTSnationals, as "Sn".


Highest of all Pontiac qualifiers @ this '17 Sn race, @ #27.


#9 @ this '18 Sn race. .966 under.


'18 Sn J/SA class win.


He was the highest of 4 Pontiac qualifiers @ this '19 Sn race.


#2 @ this '19 div 3 race.


#25 & class RU @ '21 US Nats.


#17 @ more than a sec under, @ the '21 Indy Fall Classic.


Won this div 3 race last Oct, in 7 rounds.

 

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Discussion Starter · #118 · (Edited)
Here's 3 more '77's. Well, I suppose I'll have to combine the '77's & '78's, since most of 'em seem to have switched back & forth, depending on which year model would be the most advantageous, at he time.

2 of these have been record holders, for sure. The Dave Ribeiro Bird was a 2-year record holder. The Bill Edgeworth Bird was also a record holder.

Here's some specs Dave posted about his Bird, back in '03.


At this '04 Lucas Oil Nats race, Dave got down to 6 cars, where his opponent cut a perfect .000 light. Dave qualified with a .926 under, 12.02.


I asked Dave which engine is the most competitive, in a '77 Bird, a 400 or 350. He said that since NHRA has raised the hp factor of the base 400 engine so much, he feels that the 350 is now more competitive. The 350 has been @ 254hp since '16. The 400 has been @ 283hp, in Birds, since '03. Note that the cars Dave called "Can Am" are actually '74 "Grand Am" models.




The Paul Dilcher & Chad Smith Birds are one-in-the same. Chad just decorated it a little different. I'll try to look up some decent race results for each driver.

Just a few months back, @ this div 1 race, Chad was #7 @ .971 under.


Check this out. 4 of the top 6 qualifiers were Pontiac powered ! Bill Edgeworth was #6. Some Pontiac "Heavy Hitters".


Highest qualified Pontiac @ the '15 NW Nats @ #5.

 

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Discussion Starter · #119 · (Edited)
Breaker ! Breaker !

I interrupt this thread for this special presentation !

Here is THE best drag racing video I have ever seen !!!!! :cool:

There was not a know-it-all announcer trying to impress us with how much he knows & cool he is. (That's no badmouth to anybody in particular, since I don't know any of 'em.)

But the main thing was that they actually had the mic turned up & close enuff to the starting line to actually hear the nasty Stocker cams thump & the high stall converters do their thing.

The camera guy got lots of zoom-in shots. At night, you could see the dial-in & ET of both cars.

The camera was close enuff so that you could see each cars staging progress.

Hey, for those who like Stock Eliminator racing, it just don't git no better'n nis !

If you like Stock Eliminator racing, at all, you'll love this video. And, there are several old school Pontiac powered cars in it. Those I remember seeing were Billy Nees - 301 '79 Lemans, Randi Lyn Shipp - 400 '67 Bird, Juilie Biermann - 400 '68 Bird, Chris Stephenson - 400 '68 Bird. Looked like Billy broke another 301(or something), on his pass. He's said that he & his former racing partner, Don Himes, broke several 301's, back when 1st trying to get 'em to go fast. But, he said that if you back off & don't push 'em too hard, you CAN get one to run under the index & stay alive for a reasonable length of time. As many know, it's the crank that's the weakest link.

Anyhow, the video shows every round of Stock except the 1st round & the semi final round. Enjoy ! :)

 

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Discussion Starter · #120 · (Edited)
Here's 3 more '77 Stocker Birds. Tibor Kadar did real good with this 1st one. Think I read that he ran a 350 in it. He then sold it to Tommy Pettigrew. Don't know if he ran a 350, a 400, or both. But, I was REALLY disappointed to read that he put a Chevy motor in it last year.:(



Back in the old days, you could usually tell what engine a car was running, by the class it was put in. You couldn't add or remove weight, in order to move up or down a class, OR even to meet only the min weight requirement of your car's natural class. That's why some cars were just naturally more competitive. For example: The 330hp '68 Birds made a perfect 10lbs/hp E Stock class car. NHRA min weight was 3300lbs. And they used the factory 330hp rating for a long time.

AND, it was basically the same engine that was rated 350hp in a GTO. So, my '68 Bird was much more competitive than my '69 GTO, running the 350hp engine. Both cars made the even 10lbs/hp class. But, that meant that my Goat had to be 200lbs heavier than the Bird. Plus, they did not weigh the cars with the driver. TJ only weighed 100lbs. I weighed well over 200. So, I had a 300+ lbs handicap. PLUS, the little Bird has less wind resistance. That's probably one of the main reasons why there have been so many '68 Bird Stockers & so few 350hp '68 & '69 GTO Stockers.

NHRA has leveled the GTO vs Firebird playing field, in recent years by reducing the hp rating of the 350hp GTO engine, to slightly less than the 330hp Bird engine. 325hp for the Goats vs 333hp for the '68 Bird with auto trans. But, @ current prices for a clean GTO body, don't think there will be lots of guys rushing to build a '68 or '69 GTO Stocker. You can usually buy a competitive Stocker MUCH cheaper than you can build one. BUT, there are a FEW guys who, on purpose, build Stocker from scratch, which will cost very little, but still run under the index. Billy Nees, who I've mentioned, is one of the master of these "Dime Rockets", as they are called. That's how he came up with racing a 301, because nobody wanted the junkyard 301's except a few 301 Turbo guys, who wanted the 301T blocks & other turbo engine related parts.



Tlbor is a real good driver. He has won some big bracket races in his early GTO. He was RU in national Stock points, in '06.



He won class @ the '06 Vegas Summit Nats. Check out all the Pontiac powered class wins ! D/SA, E/SA, F/SA, K/SA, L/SA, & P/SA. Pretty good Pontiac showing !


And Pontiacs were #1, #4, & #7 on the Q-list !


He won the 1st SPORTSnationals race, @ Fontana.


The 2nd Bird I'll mention is what I call the "Biondo Bird". It has been in the famous Biondo racing family for quite a few years now. I know that Peter, Sal, & Dylan Biondo have raced it. It now has "Hatari" on the side. So, that means that Phil Monteith has a hand in it, somehow. Phil has been connected to the Biondo family, for a quite a while. I'll talk about that a lot more when we get into the GT SS cars. Pic #9 shows Dylan posing with a check, representing the $500 he won for being RU in a race, not too long ago.



In '04, Sal qualified @ more than a sec under & made it to the semi-final round, @ Indy.


The last pic shows what I call the "HPP Mag Bird". It was built by Mark Yacovone, & driven by he & his wife, Carol. The links I'll post show that his wife was driving. The car ran quite well. Dave Batta runs the car now. I only have one pic of it, which is fuzzy. Auto Imagery shows 3 pics taken while Dave has had it.


@ Englishtown, in '98, Carol qualified @ more than a sec under & won L/SA. Dave Ribeiro was right below her on the lists.


Check it out. 5 Pontiac class winners in a row, L/SA, M/SA, N/SA, O/SA, & P/SA. Another good Pontiac showing.

Drag Race Central | Presented by Summitracing.com

All 3 of these cars have been strong running Stockers, at some point in their life, & all 3 are still racing. :)
 

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