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So I finally got in one of these things and did a test drive.....WOW!
So much tourqe! Such a broad power band as well. So different from my WRX which, though modded fairly well, never has that stomp an go or pull hard in 5th. I have grown so used to the power delivery of a turbocharged system that this is really eye opening. I went with the sales guy and after there was a break in traffic he said "let her run for a bit". We hit 105 before I knew what was happening. Of course he really wanted me to get it. It is the last 04 GTO that they have and they just want it gone. To bad for them that it is yellow or I would have traded the subie right there. Still going to try and hold out for the 05 and see how prices are in aug-sept or so. Although after the drive it just got alot harder. :rolleyes:
 

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For the price you could get the 04 for compared to what the 05 increase PLUS the foolish dealer mark-up,You could EASILY add the extra 50 HP to it and have a ton of cash left for other mods like; Hood, exhaust ETC.
 

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2004 GTO said:
For the price you could get the 04 for compared to what the 05 increase PLUS the foolish dealer mark-up,You could EASILY add the extra 50 HP to it and have a ton of cash left for other mods like; Hood, exhaust ETC.

Foolish Dealer Markup? Let's see...if our car breaks, we need someone to fix it UNDER WARRANTY right? Let's see...dealer markup is foolish. Dealers go out of business if they don't make any money. Can't afford to train techs, buy special tools, build repair facilities. Sounds good to me. Let's disallow dealers from making money on service and parts too! That way we can take it to untrained Joe's garage (or Pep Boys) around the corner and PAY HIM to fix our cars. Everyone knows that independents are scrupuolously honest. Just like dealers.

:confused :confused
 

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Baron Samedi said:
Foolish Dealer Markup? Let's see...if our car breaks, we need someone to fix it UNDER WARRANTY right? Let's see...dealer markup is foolish. Dealers go out of business if they don't make any money. Can't afford to train techs, buy special tools, build repair facilities. Sounds good to me. Let's disallow dealers from making money on service and parts too! That way we can take it to untrained Joe's garage (or Pep Boys) around the corner and PAY HIM to fix our cars. Everyone knows that independents are scrupuolously honest. Just like dealers.

:confused :confused
There is a difference between a fair markup and what happened with the GTO's when they came out. I think it is a fair assessment that many dealers were charging excessive prices. Let's hope we don't have this same situation in 2005.

I take most of my work to the dealer whether it is under warranty or not. I prefer to pay the premium the dealership charges for what I hope will be top notch service.

Let's not cry too much for the dealerships. Needless to say, I would suspect the owners make more than a fair return. If not, they would be getting out of the car business. And I don't think that is the case.
 

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Thanks catchmeifucan,

You hit the nail on the head,

Baron, correct me if I am wrong, but, doesn't the dealer charge the factory for warranty repairs. MSRP or below is fair but when dealers inflate their prices to 5K over MSRP on the GTO and Corvette that pays for a little more than a few warranty repairs. Most of the GM dealers allow discounts of 10% or more off of sticker price on the other brands. I don't think they will be going out of business any time soon. I also agree with 2004GTO, it's foolish to rape customers when a product is first released and then reduce the product to 4-6k under MSRP at the model year end.
 

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Prices are determined by supply and demand. When first introduced, the GTO was in high demand and short supply. Not that I'm defending charging over MSRP (although other than cars, do you know of any high dollar item where - excluding holdback - markup is less than 10%?). I believe MSRP is the maximum that should be charged. There's a simple solution to (perceived) high prices. Don't pay them. When the dealers ran out of people willing to pay over list, what happened? The prices came down. When October rolled around and dealers and GM had loads of unsold '04s in stock, what happened? $3,500 cash back.

And yes dealers get paid by the factory for warranty work. Why shouldn't they? In this capitalist system, what's the motivation for being in business in the first place? To make a rate of return on your investment greater than you could make in some other venue. And don't forget, as unscrupulous as SOME dealers may be, they all have millions invested in their inventories (cars, parts, labor) as well as facilities and they have to make a profit or they won't be around.

Got to hand it to catchmeifucan too...patronize the good dealers, shun the bad and let economic darwinism take the weakest!

:cheers
 

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Baron Samedi said:
Foolish Dealer Markup? Let's see...if our car breaks, we need someone to fix it UNDER WARRANTY right? Let's see...dealer markup is foolish. Dealers go out of business if they don't make any money. Can't afford to train techs, buy special tools, build repair facilities. Sounds good to me. Let's disallow dealers from making money on service and parts too! That way we can take it to untrained Joe's garage (or Pep Boys) around the corner and PAY HIM to fix our cars. Everyone knows that independents are scrupuolously honest. Just like dealers.

:confused :confused
I was referring to the "FOOLISH" mark-up OVER sticker price. That is NOT required for the dealer to make money and do warrantee repairs that by the way GM pays them for. :shutme
 

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Dealers make plenty. Ther is a Ford dealer here in California( Dublin Ford in Bay Area) that has the 4X4 Eddie Bauer Expedition for $15,000.00 under MSRP. That includes a $5,000.00 factory rebate. Same add ran three weeks. His discount is $10,000.00. Holly crap do they make money. Think of all the people thet bought them at MSRP..

Ford is no GM, but look at the year end discounts from all the dealers.


GTO-TO-GO
 

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No offense GTO-to-Go, but if you think there's $10,000 Gross profit in a Ford Expedition (even an Eddie Bauer), you're mistaken.

On the other hand, there is about $10,000 Gross Profit in a $100,000+ Porsche 911 turbo.

What you're probably seeing is an example of loss-leader advertising. Where one (undesirable) vehicle is advertised at a ridiculously low price to bring in the masses. Once there, the prospects are "switched" to a more desireable vehicle where the store actually makes money.

Or, like happens here in the Philadelphia area, a dealer gets an inventory of high mileage (ex-rentals) 2004 Cadillacs and Lincolns and advertises them for "1/2 of retail MSRP". Nowhere in the ad does it say that the cars are used, missing trim, dented, etc. It's "bait and switch" at its worst. There are some shady dealers out there.

My brother in law fell for the bait and switch at the local dealer mentioned above. When he told me he'd responded to the 1/2 off MSRP ad, I asked him what car the salesman switched him to. My b in law then said "Oh, he didn't switch me, that car had 70,000 miles and wasn't in nice shape. I picked a nice, one-owner, low-mileage Cartier town car (no accounting for taste) that I liked much better". In the interest of family harmony, I didn't point out to him that the ad had worked exactly as planned.

As I said earlier, find a dealer you like and trust (preferably with a high investment in a good service department with low technician turnover) and patronize him. Tell your friends about him too.

;)
 

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Baron's got it pretty much right. I work in the Fleet Department of a Ford dealership. There's not quite $6,000 profit built into the MSRP on an Eddie Bauer Expedition. The add you saw from Dublin Ford was most likely a loss leader and probably a unit he's been paying flooring on and wants to clear out.
 

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Interesting...I wouldn't have thought there was $6k in an Expedition.

Does that include holdback? Isn't there some difference in Monroney sticker MSRP disclosure requirements for trucks vs. cars?
 

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It's all part of being a smart consumer, guys.

Before I test drove and-- to my import-loving horror-- loved the GTO, I was dead set on getting a VW R32. The VW dealers, however, were not dealing on them because there were only 4000 built for the U.S. market. There were no incentives offered by VW USA, and most negotiations proved moot. Thing is, it is a $30,000 Golf....and despite the fact that the R32 is a kick-ass car, a hatchback that expensive is a tough sell no matter how hot it is. I seached all dealers within a reasonable distance, and all I got were vague promises of "we'll talk about the pricing." I loved the R32 from my first test drive right after they were released (about a year ago now), but the markup was obscene. Even by this september, when I bought my GTO, VW dealers wouldn't sell the R32 under invoice.

So, thought I, screw 'em. I decided to expand my horizons, and found the GTO with great incentives...a serious-performance import car at what I still consider a great price.

I drove by the local VW lot two weeks ago....and to my amusement, the same four R32s are still sitting there...
 

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I don't want to digress to much, but on the subject of pricing it is amazing that now, with the factory rebates, many new cars sell for LESS or for the SAME price as new cars.

You can find some used 2003s and 2004s advertised in the newspaper for a higher price than new cars advertised in the same newspaper.

IMHO some dealers may have bought the car a few months ago (before year end promotions) and now that new cars get incentives, they refuse to sell the used cars at a loss. So they keep them in the parking lot for a while waiting for some sucker to buy them. Ultimately, they have to sell most of them at wholesale.
 
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