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Anyone have any thoughts on the results of the midterm elections this week? Think the Dems will save the day or make things worse?
 

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The President's approval ratings were in the toilet -- and Congress' were even lower -- so this stunning degree of change shouldn't have been a surprise.

Over the past few years, many people adopted an oversimplified "Republican/Conservative/Good, Democrat/Liberal/Bad" philosophy. It's what got Bush re-elected. However, the Republicans really got away from what they traditionally stood for: a small, fiscally responsible government that got things done. In fact, the only thing the term "conservative" really stood for were a series of wacky religious beliefs -- instead of a restricted approach to spending and legislation.

Look at the ridiculous drug plan the Republicans passed. The government pays full retail price for prescriptions, then distributes them to the public at a subsidized cost. A ridiculous plan straight out of the FDR administration -- with the multi-billion dollar tab going onto the national deficit -- which ballooned under Bush and a Republican Congress. That's a completely liberal piece of legislation -- but as long as Rush Limbaugh would shoot his mouth off and say Republicans/Conservative/Good and Democrats/Liberal/Bad -- the Republicans thought they could get away with it as long as empty headed nit-wits like my sister in law believed it.

Look at what the Republicans accomplished over the past 6 years with complete control of Washington: no oil drilling in the Pacific, a $58 a barrel tax on Brazilian methanol, continued funding of corn-based ethanol -- which is a complete joke -- and spending time on divisive, hateful stuff like a constitutional ban on gay marriage and jumping into the Terry Schiavo mess. And let's not forget about the rather iffy reasoning behind the invasion of Iraq -- and the complete mismanagement of it.

That kind of crap really turned me off -- along with Bush appointees like that clown who ran FERC, who turned a blind eye to the energy companies looting California during the energy shortages a few years ago. A small issue, yes, but symbolic in that the government no longer was capable of viewing right and wrong -- because the influence of outside money was so great -- blowing any sense of trust in the process.

Fortunately, a lot of the Democrats who got elected are quite conservative. Conservative in the fiscal sense. They really should help balance out the Republicans who were drunk on their own power. Will it be easy? Heck, no, as a lot a Democrats are total whack jobs -- just like some Republicans are.

Right now, everybody's playing nice. I hope they keep it up -- because this country needs to come up with a unified policy on Iraq, a real energy policy, a way of truly getting tough with the Chinese and other ruthless "trading partners" that are driving our middle class to the working class and the working class to poverty -- all while finding a way of cutting spending so we can begin paying down our nation's $8,600,000,000 credit card tab.

And before anybody begins to sling mud at me as some goofy California Democrat tree hugging liberal -- keep in mind that pretty much all of votes on Tuesday were for Republicans -- the old school, small government kind.
 

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I am guessing this was a referendum on Bush, not based on Democrat ideas...which I still don't know what those are...

What are their stands this year o:

Taxes?
Terrorism?
Immigration?

I am interested to see what they have to offer, I just didn't hear them talking about ideas.
 

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I followed Montgomery Brewsters advise.... I voted for none of the above.

I have been saying this and I do believe our next president will be Rudolph Guiliani.

I used to loath Newt Ginrich but I listen to him on Hannity and Colmes and he to me anyway, comes off as the sharpest of any guy in that arena. He states he as no intentions of running but who knows.

As much as Hilary is flapping her gums, I believe in the long run the country is not ready for a woman president. I think she will nose dive in time.

As far as black president hopefuls... I like Colin Powell, but he isn't running. If the Jessie Jackson and Al Sharptons yearn for a black president, Powell is the guy. I really like him. He would have the best chance of a "minority" becoming President.

Michigan elected the first Muslim in. This makes me uneasy. I have read his sentiments after he won. He sounds like FREAKACON even though he now says he's distanced himself from him. The radicals of that sect will target him to carry forth their agendas, and I wonder how long it will take him to succumb to the radical pressures. He's already preaching MORE MUSLIMS in congress. NOT MORE QUALIFIED leaders, MORE MUSLIMS.

I'd be concerned too if a "radial Catholic or radical Baptist" with their religion with ties to hatred against us were voted in.

I would tend to the think the FBI and CIA will be monitoring him.

I also think that the hatred shown to Republicans was so overwhelming that if Lucifer himself were running for office against Republican's, he's be voted in just because.

But what do I know......

 

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The President's approval ratings were in the toilet -- and Congress' were even lower -- so this stunning degree of change shouldn't have been a surprise.

Over the past few years, many people adopted an oversimplified "Republican/Conservative/Good, Democrat/Liberal/Bad" philosophy. It's what got Bush re-elected. However, the Republicans really got away from what they traditionally stood for: a small, fiscally responsible government that got things done. In fact, the only thing the term "conservative" really stood for were a series of wacky religious beliefs -- instead of a restricted approach to spending and legislation.

Look at the ridiculous drug plan the Republicans passed. The government pays full retail price for prescriptions, then distributes them to the public at a subsidized cost. A ridiculous plan straight out of the FDR administration -- with the multi-billion dollar tab going onto the national deficit -- which ballooned under Bush and a Republican Congress. That's a completely liberal piece of legislation -- but as long as Rush Limbaugh would shoot his mouth off and say Republicans/Conservative/Good and Democrats/Liberal/Bad -- the Republicans thought they could get away with it as long as empty headed nit-wits like my sister in law believed it.

Look at what the Republicans accomplished over the past 6 years with complete control of Washington: no oil drilling in the Pacific, a $58 a barrel tax on Brazilian methanol, continued funding of corn-based ethanol -- which is a complete joke -- and spending time on divisive, hateful stuff like a constitutional ban on gay marriage and jumping into the Terry Schiavo mess. And let's not forget about the rather iffy reasoning behind the invasion of Iraq -- and the complete mismanagement of it.

That kind of crap really turned me off -- along with Bush appointees like that clown who ran FERC, who turned a blind eye to the energy companies looting California during the energy shortages a few years ago. A small issue, yes, but symbolic in that the government no longer was capable of viewing right and wrong -- because the influence of outside money was so great -- blowing any sense of trust in the process.

Fortunately, a lot of the Democrats who got elected are quite conservative. Conservative in the fiscal sense. They really should help balance out the Republicans who were drunk on their own power. Will it be easy? Heck, no, as a lot a Democrats are total whack jobs -- just like some Republicans are.

Right now, everybody's playing nice. I hope they keep it up -- because this country needs to come up with a unified policy on Iraq, a real energy policy, a way of truly getting tough with the Chinese and other ruthless "trading partners" that are driving our middle class to the working class and the working class to poverty -- all while finding a way of cutting spending so we can begin paying down our nation's $8,600,000,000 credit card tab.

And before anybody begins to sling mud at me as some goofy California Democrat tree hugging liberal -- keep in mind that pretty much all of votes on Tuesday were for Republicans -- the old school, small government kind.
Ditto what BA said.
 

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There is one very good thing here. With Democrats controlling both houses, Bush can still veto. Maybe we will have gridlock. When government does mostly nothing it is always the best that could happen.

We have all the laws we need. We have way too much government in our life.

By the way if the government froze spending for 7 years to current levels the national debt would be gone.

Another option would be to sell off some federally owned land. The value of the land held by the federal government is over 30 trillion dollars. We could sell off 4% of the area and raise enough money to pay off the debt by choosing select high value sites. This would also stimulate economic activity which would increase tax revenues. They could always use another 2 or 3 ski resorts in Utah and Colorado. A couple more in Montana and Wyoming wouldn't hurt. Some land 10 miles from the Grand Canyon would open it up to more tourists and take some of the burden off the areas that are already open. This would benefit the canyon in the long run. California could use some more ski resorts. There is tons of federal land everywhere, we need to use it.
 

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My thoughts are the we (Republicans) deserved to lose control. We have mismanaged the war, have had multiple scandals and are spending like liberals. The dems are saying that they will reach across the aisle to get things done. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Soon, you will see the hearings on Iraq, Halliburton, Exxon/Mobile, etc. begin in Washington. There will be total gridlock and Bush will be forced to use his Veto. Voters will become so disgusted with the Dems that they will be swept out of office again in 2006. The Republican will win the next presidential ticket in 2006 with the McCain/Lieberman ticket.:willy:



"Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore.":D
 

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Who here really think the Republicans that had control of congress were really conservatives?

Personally, I think these guys cared less about conservative principles... They said what they needed to say to gain power and the GOP base bought it without any real scrutiny...

A good example of this is McCain -- a true conservative. He tried to be critical but I think the powers that be slapped him down... He weighed his best interests and decided to fall in line with the rest of the party... not sure what did it but I'm sure it was significant...

I always get skeptical when people start waving the flag... Almost always there is a truckload of BULLSHT that follows...

It is my hope the GOP purges itself of corruption... The country always works best when the power is shared... the populus view of the GOP right now is not good... like they won't have a majority for a long, long time...
 

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Republican....Democrat Conservative.....Liberal what a choice.

Let's see, we went from a President getting a ******* in the oval office to one who gave us a ****** about weapons of mass destruction in some sand pile of a country halfway around the world. Both have damaged the office.

We have senators lusting after teenage boys and peers ready to sweep it under the carpet.

It's painfully obvious that Washington is totally decadent and corrupt. Morally, ethically, politically, you name it. These people are there to serve themselves and the special interests that keep them in power. Pretty depressing really.

I don't see anyone on either side that isn't tainted. No one with new ideas. No one with commitment to ideals.

Of course apathy isn't the answer. But I don't see any candidates who weren't part of the problem or itching to be an "insider".
 

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Where there is money there are people that want it... is anyone here surprised there is so much corruption in government? You have to be a money hungry bastard to even compete...

Anyway, here's an interesting take on the election:

Many people have pointed me to the Iowa Electronic Markets as an indicator supposedly better than the polls. This market allows people to buy and sell futures contracts on political outcomes. In effect, it is a form of legalized gambling with real money on the election results. At midnight on Nov. 6, the day before the election, the closing prices were as follows for the following contracts, each of which paid $1 if the outcome matched the contract:

Democrats win House, Democrats win Senate $0.30
Democrats win House, Republicans win Senate $0.54
Republicans win House, Democrats win Senate $0.01
Republicans win House, Republicans win Senate $0.17

An example in practice: suppose the night before the election you expected the Democrats to win the House and the Republicans to win the Senate. For $540 you could have bought 1000 contracts. If the result had turned out as you expected, you would have collected $1000., otherwise you would have gotten nothing. If, on the other hand, you expected the Democrats to win all the marbles (as happened), you could have bought 1000 contracts for only $300 and collected $1000 after the election. In other words, the market was effectively giving 3:1 odds against a Democratic sweep. So much for the wisdom of the markets.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
 

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I'm in VA; and never thought I would vote against George Allen, but I did this year.

I am fed up with negative commercials, and between Allen and the Republican National Committee, that's all I saw. Webb had a few of his own, but nothing like the Republicans.

Frankly, I'm at the point where I'm ready to vote out any incumbent. Keep putting the fresh blood in there, and don't give anyone time to become a fat cat politician.

The temptations and pork barrel politics are just too much.
 

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I was so fed up watching Santorum and Casey here it was to the point I wish they would have marked off 10 paces and shot it out.

I mean it was really bad. They were each blaming the other for things that happened before they each were born.:willy: :willy: :willy:
 

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imo the american people need to get a little more informed
know what the candidates stand for not just on national levels but
on local as well. many people get into politics for personal reasons
and push for thier agendas. real change will come when "we the people"
rise up and join together on some common ground and say we've had enough.
ball is in the dems court we will wait and see.:)
 

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Personally, I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel.

We have a TWO PARTY system. Period.

I can stand on my principles and vote libertarian, but all that does is defeat republicans and elect democrats. I don't agree with 1/2 of their agenda, but I don't agree with 95% of the democrat agenda. So, I vote for the lesser of two evils.

The solution? I don't know. Voting my heart (libertarian/conservative) will only help the part that's even worse (imo) than the republicans. My principled stand would be self-destructive. It's quixotic and foolish at best. Look at all of the liberals who voted for Nader in 2000. They won the election for Bush.

And, for people lamenting how negative campaign ads are pervasive and sickening - they run them because they work. As Mark Twain said: "A lie can travel half way around the world while truth puts its shoes on". This is true now - one out of context statement or hyperbole laden populist sound byte takes 2 seconds to make and is easily digestable for the typical apathetic voter. The rebuttal may take time and a person's attention. The average american voter doesn't want to invest the time in something like that - this is lowest common denominator sound-byte politics where the winners outbid one another for your affection with more and more promises of unsustainable programs/policies.

Thomas Paine said it best: "Government, at its best, is a necessary evil".
 

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What you don't know won't hurt you:)

This is why I don't watch the news. (I do vote and I always will even if my vote has no significant effect on the outcome). When I do watch, I get sick to my stomach. Everything I've read on this thread has been well written, well explained opinions on how out-off-control our government really is. Yes I said it, our government, not the special interest groups that we so often here about. What a coincidence right before the elections there was an unexpected rise in crude oil driving prices down? It’s all a game and the citizens of this country who work hard to make ends meet and pay there taxes only so Washington wrongfully spends our money on countries halfway around the world. Could you imagine if the money spent in Iraq was pumped into our own economy? This is why I like the dems, there bills almost always focus on spending the money here. When Clinton was pres. the economy flourished and the deficit was gone. Clinton signed a road re-construction project bill to repair our dangerous roads and bridges at a cost to the American tax payer 800,000,000,000 that is not only improving our roads but till this day is still employing American workers which spend there money here, buying houses, GTO's, boats, clothing, etc., which in turn stimulate the economy. Did you know that our government officials that we vote for take our tax dollars and give incentives to American corporations that take their plants to china and other Far East countries?
When a millionaire buys gasoline at the pump he or she doesn't much care that it’s doubled or even tripled in price. Do you think an extra $80.00 a week will affect his or her wallet at all? Now when an American worker on a set salary and on a budget has to dish out an extra $60.00 a week and he or she only makes a couple of hundred bucks a week, that's what gripes me. I think this is what the Bush agenda is all about. And the people have sent Mr. Bush and Mr. Chaney a message. But I think the message is a little late, Mr. Bush and Mr. Chaney have already filled their pockets real good.;)
Well I'm done complaining, which is all any of us can do... "Or is it?";)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Question: Why do candidates spend millions of $$ to get elected to a job that pays less than $200K a year? (The current salary for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $165,200 per year.)

Answer: POWER

It's not about 'money' per se. You don't see any working stiffs running for Congress, it's wealthy businessmen and women who have already made their fortunes. They don't want the job because it pays well, they want the job for the power that comes with the position. When you reach that level, you get to make the rules, and the rules you make benefit you and your rich cronies and the corporations that bought you into office. Republican, Democrat, it doesn't really matter. Washington is for sale to the highest bidder and has become corrupt beyond belief. If you do happen to get someone in office who's idealistic and genuinely wants to make things better for the PEOPLE and not just himself and his buddies, the rest of Congress stonewalls him and he can do absolutely nothing unless he plays the game too. Personally I don't look for much to change until we march 25 or 30 million people on Washington and shut the place down for a couple weeks and DEMAND changes. I honestly believe that's what it's going to take. Things have gotten so out of control and are so skewed by all the graft floating around in Washington, and nothing is going to change until the American people stand up and demand changes. The only thing this election said was "We're tired of the Republicans screwing us over, so we're going to let the Democrats screw us over for a while."
 

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Question: Why do candidates spend millions of $$ to get elected to a job that pays less than $200K a year? (The current salary for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $165,200 per year.)

Answer: POWER

It's not about 'money' per se. You don't see any working stiffs running for Congress, it's wealthy businessmen and women who have already made their fortunes. They don't want the job because it pays well, they want the job for the power that comes with the position. When you reach that level, you get to make the rules, and the rules you make benefit you and your rich cronies and the corporations that bought you into office. Republican, Democrat, it doesn't really matter. Washington is for sale to the highest bidder and has become corrupt beyond belief. If you do happen to get someone in office who's idealistic and genuinely wants to make things better for the PEOPLE and not just himself and his buddies, the rest of Congress stonewalls him and he can do absolutely nothing unless he plays the game too. Personally I don't look for much to change until we march 25 or 30 million people on Washington and shut the place down for a couple weeks and DEMAND changes. I honestly believe that's what it's going to take. Things have gotten so out of control and are so skewed by all the graft floating around in Washington, and nothing is going to change until the American people stand up and demand changes. The only thing this election said was "We're tired of the Republicans screwing us over, so we're going to let the Democrats screw us over for a while."
:cheers
 

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I think what upsets me most is that when I was a kid, my parents spoke with respect of the office of the President of the U.S. Likewise, it was considered a prestigious achievement to be elected to serve in Congress. Parents actually wanted their kids to grow up and make a contribution to the country like FDR, Harry Truman, Ike, JFK, LBJ. These people were genuinely respected. I'm sure these were not perfect human beings but compared to the current DC sluts........sheesh.

Now fast forward a generation.............. I can't lie to my kids and tell them our current "leaders" are the people they should aspire to model their life after. They see the the truth in print and in broadcasts every day.

We have lost something. Something valuable. And don't think the rest of the world doesn't see it as well.


Nixon, Clinton, Bush, Barney Frank, Gerry Studds, Ted Kennedy, Joe Biden, Mark Foley, Dan Crane, Gary Hart, Brock Adams, Bob Packwood, Strom Thurmond, Gary Condit, Jack Ryan, Jack Abramoff, Tom DeLay, Dick Cheney, the list is endless and shameful.
 
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