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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With every other car Ive searched, the stick outperforms the automatic.

I just finished reading the 05 brochure.. Can someone please explain to me, why the automatic, and a 4 spd at that, is quoted as completing 0-60 in 4.6 and 1/4mile in 13, while the 6 spd Stick completes each in 4.7 and 13.1?

Why, in otherwords, does the stick lose a tenth of a second to the 4 spd automatic???????
 

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Yeah, the auto in the GTO is a very good one. It shifts very fast and very accurately. I would think an extremely skilled manual driver could do about as good of times as the auto... but the auto in the GTO really is just that good. It's kind of unheard-of til this point in time, but auto tranny's in general are becoming faster and better than manuals.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
RiceEater said:
Yeah, the auto in the GTO is a very good one. It shifts very fast and very accurately. I would think an extremely skilled manual driver could do about as good of times as the auto... but the auto in the GTO really is just that good. It's kind of unheard-of til this point in time, but auto tranny's in general are becoming faster and better than manuals.
I have to believe the guy doing the shifting for those performance numbers must not have been very good... Look at it this way.. Even on the New M3s equipped with that 7 speed super duper SMG system, with automated manual snifts, that are measured in small fractions of a second... even those show 0-60 times of 2-3 tenths slower than the stick shifted version.

With the gto numbers, maybe the launch with the stick wasnt done well and tire slip was the issue. Or, maybe he was just a bad shifter. I mean, even the fanciest 6 and 7 spd automatic transmissions around do not shift as fast as the stick version. And This is only a 4 speed tranny! Even if its a 'good' 4 spd tranny, its still a 'slush box' with a trq converter, and these things just eat up performance. Or, maybe the relatively long throws of the 6 speed slowed him down.

But, until I see more numbers comparing the two trannies, I have to believe the stick is at least 2 to 3 tenths faster to 60, and the quartermile, than that 4 spd slushbox.
 

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I know it sounds really weird, and I don't know quite how it works out, but basically the auto in this car is VERY good. I have heard of a few GTO drivers I know with M6's that can run lets say roughly 4.5sec 0-60 and high 12's in the 1/4 stock. So yes the manual can be made to move faster, but not too much so. Plus the guys who got those times are really experienced manual users. I mean they're on par with professional racers almost... well 2 are anyway (one was a former stunt driver).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
RiceEater said:
I know it sounds really weird, and I don't know quite how it works out, but basically the auto in this car is VERY good. I have heard of a few GTO drivers I know with M6's that can run lets say roughly 4.5sec 0-60 and high 12's in the 1/4 stock. So yes the manual can be made to move faster, but not too much so. Plus the guys who got those times are really experienced manual users. I mean they're on par with professional racers almost... well 2 are anyway (one was a former stunt driver).
Well, i wonder, do you think most gto buyers would rather take the autmatic, or the stick? I know the dealer in my town has two on the floor, both with the stick. They ordered all, or most of them that way. Usually, its the faster acceleration times which sells the stick.. In this case, if the automatic is really a tenth quicker, I dont know. I wonder if the installation of the short shift kit improves the performance numbers.. it would have to. But suprisingly, I didnt think the throws were really that long, or the shifter that rubbery after sitting in the car and playing with it for awhile.. I thought it felt pretty damn good to me.. I didnt know what the car mags were talking about really.

Colorwise, the dealer only had 2.. a yellow and a cyclone gray. From the pics I think I like impulse blue, the black, and the red, in that order. The cyclone grey I saw i thought id like from the pics.. But, it was so bland in person, the car I think needs color, or black. Interesting how no white is offered.

When I next went to a ford dealer, they told me there were no 05 GTs anywhere, and for an 06, id have to leave a deposit now, and not expect to see it before January! As for test drives of either I was told forget about it.. That always bothered me.. How can you expect to buy a performance car, without having the ability to test its performance? I dont mean to bang on it, but at least we should be able to experience the transmission, and at least a taste of its power and handling. What do they expect us to do??

Oh.. back to the stangs.. The problem Im told is that in order to get GTs, the dealers have to take a certain number of V6s. Thats why we see V6s on the lots, but not GTs. It seems they so totally misread the market, that even their 30% projected increase was not nearly enough.. Plus, they said the allocation of automatics to sticks was all wrong, so that stick GTs are going to be in short supply also.

Well, one man's loss is another man's gain. At least there are GTOs available. Even its shape is growing on me. And, I love that interior.. The seats are so well bolstered, they really seem to hold you in. :party:
 

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GTO is definately leaps and bounds better than a Mustang GT... they're not really even in the same class.

Anyway, a lot of people get the stick on the GTO because it's fun to drive like everyone manual is. I know a lot of guys though that do get the auto for dragging because you dont have to worry about missed shifts or anything like that... but I also know a lot of guys that get the manual for dragging. It's really all a matter or preference. Would you rather control the car completely, or sit back and relax as the tranny takes care of the work? You will be able to go pretty much the same speed in either one (the manual IS better for very high speeds though), but the manual gets slightly better mileage.

Anyway, it's all a matter of preference with the GTO. Neither tranny is a lot better than the other. For the most part their performance is equal. Now it's just up to you to make a dicission :D


As for colors, I love the Black/Red combo. It looks so classy and nice on this car. If you want something a little more racey looking, I would go for the yellowjacket (05 is the last year for it) or red. And then if you want something that just kind of stands out in a way that looks nice, blue is the way to go (other than the yellow stands out as much as any other yellow car :rolleyes: ).
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
gTO owners hate stangs, and stang owners hate gtos.. Its more ingrained that audi vs bmw, or mb vs bmw. Goes back to camaro vs stang.. cept there is no camaro, so all the hatred gets heaped on the goat. poor little baaaa baaaa goat :( lol .. listen.. they mis appropriated quantities, and sticks vs automatics so badly, you have to wonder about a company that is so out of touch!

As for sticks vs slush, last sluch I had was on my '95 Volvo 850 turbo, cause stick wasnt available.. So when I traded it for my M3, it had to be a stick, and I only wanted a stick.. I just personally dont like automatics.. for me, it removes me too much from the driving experience. Plus, no matter how good this automatic is, its still a 4 spd, which sounds a little archaic to me. Its like wouldnt you feel a little to regressive if all you could buy was a 4 spd Stick? I still am stunned that with virtuall All slushboxes causing a loss in performance, how it is that this 4 speed is immune to it.. it is mind boggling, and Id love to hear from a GM pro what its all about. What Id really like is to tst drive them one after the other.. But dealers wont let us test drive them period... I think it sucks to have to make a $35k decision based on not being able to drive and compare.. It just really sucks.. it really does. even bmw dealers let you test drive the M3s, so whats wrong wtih these american dealers anyway. its not right.
 

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I think GM should offer a delete option so you can save money and get a 3spd on the tree, or a 2 speed auto. I mean these cars offer such a flexible engine I'd probably save 4-500 bucks to get a 2 speed auto. Powerglide all the way. LOL
 

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I've wondered the same thing.

Not sure but this is just a theory. It may have something to do with the extra gear change that is made with the 6 speed which costs a miniscule amount of time in the quarter mile. In addition, it seems to me like the auto still continues to apply a bit or torque to the driveshaft even during the shift.

Also possible (and maybe even in conjunction with the above idea) is that the LS2, with it's 400 ft/lbs. of torque, doesn't suffer as much with fewer grear ratios as is evident with the auto '04 LS1 models.

Just thoughts on my part.

paul e said:
gTO owners hate stangs, and stang owners hate gtos.. Its more ingrained that audi vs bmw, or mb vs bmw. Goes back to camaro vs stang.. cept there is no camaro, so all the hatred gets heaped on the goat. poor little baaaa baaaa goat :( lol .. listen.. they mis appropriated quantities, and sticks vs automatics so badly, you have to wonder about a company that is so out of touch!

As for sticks vs slush, last sluch I had was on my '95 Volvo 850 turbo, cause stick wasnt available.. So when I traded it for my M3, it had to be a stick, and I only wanted a stick.. I just personally dont like automatics.. for me, it removes me too much from the driving experience. Plus, no matter how good this automatic is, its still a 4 spd, which sounds a little archaic to me. Its like wouldnt you feel a little to regressive if all you could buy was a 4 spd Stick? I still am stunned that with virtuall All slushboxes causing a loss in performance, how it is that this 4 speed is immune to it.. it is mind boggling, and Id love to hear from a GM pro what its all about. What Id really like is to tst drive them one after the other.. But dealers wont let us test drive them period... I think it sucks to have to make a $35k decision based on not being able to drive and compare.. It just really sucks.. it really does. even bmw dealers let you test drive the M3s, so whats wrong wtih these american dealers anyway. its not right.
 

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The only real intance that I can think of auto vs. stick and auto wins every time, is head to head drag raceing in a massive boosted car. There are advantages and disadvantages to both......I would take a well build auto running boost anyday over stick in a drag race, because I don't want to lose any boost running the gears. On the street or track it's manual all the way.

And besides nuttin beats running through the gears, what would U find to do with the left leg anyways? It gets lonely too. ;)
 

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Cottonfarmer is maybe correct, but I don't have first hand experience.... Hey all you 6sp owners...Do you have to shift into 3rd to reach 60 mph? That could EASILY explain the 0.1 second. However, I have a feeling that reaching 60 mph in 2nd is doable, so both cars only have one gear change.

Here's my opinion. One cannot forget that automatics have torque converters, so their torque is higher at lower RPMs than a manual's torque. Brake torquing is not possible in manuals.

Here's some words pulled from another website...

"In general, automatic transmissions are known as being more useful for lazy commuters than for hardcore racers. But it may be surprising for some to know that many pro drag-racing cars have heavy-duty auto gearboxes. That's because the brake-torque launch is an automatic specialty. This launch involves keeping the car stationary by flooring the brakes with the left foot, while using the right foot to rev up the engine against the torque converter. In technical terms, this preloads the entire drivetrain with the stress of a launch, allowing the engine to rev closer to its power and torque peaks at the starting line. The only problem is that there is a lot of stress on the transmission, and the consequent heat build-up can destroy your automatic gearbox. Unless your car has too much power for the tires to handle, a brake-torque launch usually will not spin the wheels. This is because the automatic transmission absorbs the shock by design, and brake-torquing actually reduces stress on the rest of the drivetrain. Instead of a sudden massive load, the drivetrain has the torque applied slower instead of one huge jolt.

"If your car has power brakes, you could apply the brake-torquing technique even better. At the starting line, shift your auto gearbox into neutral and floor the brake pedal with your left foot. Rev the engine once and quickly get off the throttle. You will feel the brake pedal sink further to the floor. This greatly increases the braking force. Now shift back into gear. You will now be able to rev up the engine even higher against the torque converter. " -- from http://modernracer.com/tips/dragracinglaunchtechniques.html
 

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Here's must read with professional opinions on the auto vs manual debate...

http://www.kitcarmag.com/techarticles/0311_trans/

It is maybe a little long, but give it a quick scan and read why a lot of people recommend the automatics.

After reading that article, I wonder why automatics always get a bad rap.

When I get my 06 GTO, it is going to be an automatic. A lot of traffic where I live, and I love beating other cars at the stoplights!
 

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What are the rear end ratios on the auto vs the Stick? I know in the C5 vettes they had an auto with a 2.73 and the stick had a 3.42 made a big difference in the times...

Also, maybe the longer throw on the shifter makes a difference, a tenth of a second is quite literally a blink of the eye, wouldn't take much length/slop difference in the shifter to make that up...

My 99 ss camaro had the standard shifter for about 70k miles and I bought a hurst for it, man what a difference, should have done that ALOT earlier.. I have test driven an 05 GTO with the six speed and I thought that the shifter felt alot like the stock SS shifter, not bad, but definately ripe for replacement...wont wait as long on that one...

Of course I probably should buy a GTO before replacing the shifter in it... :D
 
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