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At Witz’ End: What’s an American Car?
Where it’s assembled is irrelevant.

by Gary Witzenburg


(2007-02-27)
So what is an "American" car?
If it is simply one built inAmerica, as most foreign makers and U.S. media would have you believe, then vehicles built in Canada are Canadian, those assembled in Mexico are Mexican and Porsches built in Finland are Finnish.

But we know intuitively that's not the case. And yet in this global age of autos, some people insist on sticking to the idea of purely "American," or "German," or "Japanese" cars - when in many cases, today's vehicles are polyglots, products of the same global industry.

But that doesn't change the political nature of the question.

Say General Motors decides to build Chevrolets in Japan . If the cars are competitive (could happen), that might make sense to escape expensive barriers the Japanese government puts in the way of imported vehicles to protect its own automakers.

So GM buys some land outside Nagoya , builds a plant and hires some local workers and managers to run it. Say it builds a GM Powertrain plant next door, hires more locals and - since it would be cheaper to source parts and components locally than import them - sources most of them with Japanese suppliers. Say it starts cranking out enough appealing and carefully assembled cars to put a meaningful dent in the Japanese market.

This would be good for the local economy in and around Nagoya. However, assuming that the Japanese new-car market was not growing, it would displace sales of cars built by weaker Japanese makers and hurt employment elsewhere in Japan. And as those companies' sales and shares declined, the jobs displaced would not be limited to factories; a lot of better, higher-paying headquarters jobs would be lost as well, most of them in and around Tokyo.

Would the Japanese people and media see this displacement, and net loss, as okay because "home-built Chevrolets are as Japanese as anything from our own makers"? Would they see profits from increasingly popular Japan-built Chevys going back eastward across the Pacific as okay for their own (currently struggling) economy? What do you think? MORE--


Protection or barrier?

Let's carry this scenario a few steps further: Say GM's success with its first Japanese plant and its growing penetration of the Japanese market leads it to build more plants there. Say Ford and Chrysler Group follow, and their American suppliers are encouraged to build parts plants there to support them…and to win business away from Japanese suppliers.

Japan 's highly protective government, of course, would never allow any of this to happen. And even if it did, few highly nationalistic Japanese would buy American-brand vehicles at the expense of their own coveted makers regardless of where they were built.

But say, just for a moment, that they would. Would those Japan-built cars and trucks - most designed and developed in North America -- qualify as "Japanese?" Would those parts built in American-owned Japanese plants be considered "Japanese?" Would the assembly and sales of those vehicles in Japan be perceived as good for Japanese jobs and the Japanese economy? Could their U.S. makers get away with advertising them as such? Would the Japanese media endorse and recommend them as such? What do you think?

So why has exactly this scenario evolved in the U.S.A., where nearly every Japanese automaker and some Europeans and Koreans assemble cars and trucks for the American market and beyond? Because, once import vehicle makers began achieving serious penetration of this market during the fuel-crisis 1970s, our government essentially forced them into it by imposing quotas on imported vehicles. Because our domestic makers during the 1980s and '90s were not especially worthy of protection. Because enlightened off-shore makers saw huge PR and some business benefits in building vehicles here despite our much higher business costs. And because our governments (federal and especially state and local) and most media encouraged, enabled and welcomed them here as job "creators." MORE--


Job creation - or job death

What they did not see, or chose to ignore, is that "creation" of a few thousand plant jobs here and there would eventually destroy many more and better jobs elsewhere. So while some (mostly southern) states continue to battle each other with big incentives to attract new foreign-maker plants to gain two or three thousand jobs, other (mostly northern) states lose tens of thousands. While import companies will "create" about 3000 U.S. jobs in 2007, raising their total to 106,000, U.S. automakers will lose nearly 43,000 this year, falling to about 378,000, according to Jim Doyle, president of the Washington, DC-based Level Field Institute, which tracks and reports auto-company U.S. employment.

Doyle further predicts that U.S. industry-job losses will total some 95,000 (from 2005 employment) by 2010, and even then the three U.S.-based companies will employ 71 percent of all American auto workers - four times more per car sold than Hyundai, 2.5 times more than Toyota, and nearly twice as many as Honda. "Reporters tend to focus on plant jobs and miss the headquarters jobs," Doyle asserts.

"Foreign automakers spend millions around the country promoting their new plants and U.S. investment," he says. "We welcome their investment, but Americans should know that each Ford, GM, or Chrysler Group purchase supports nearly 2.5 times the number of U.S. jobs of foreign automakers, on average."

What's more American?

Some say a Japanese car bolted together in America with a fair amount of U.S. content is more "American" than a U.S.-brand car assembled in Canada or Mexico with some foreign-sourced parts. Nonsense! Ask yourself, again, where are the bulk of the better jobs and where do the profits go? DaimlerChrysler's Chrysler Group, by the way, still qualifies as "American" because it is an entire self-contained car company based in America and employing tens of thousands of Americans at all levels that happens to be owned by a German company, just as Opel is a self-contained German company owned by General Motors.

"Toyota spends huge sums of money promoting the idea that they 'support' 368,000 U.S. jobs," Doyle says, "but those include supplier, dealership and other peripheral jobs. Using the same multiplier, GM supports 1.9 million U.S. jobs and Ford 1.2 million. Toyota also says it builds here most of the vehicles it sells here. That may be its eventual intent, but Automotive News reported that 48 percent of the vehicles Toyota sold here in 2006 were imported.

"Is it more important to the U.S. economy for someone to buy a Ford Fusion, although it's built in Mexico, from a company that employs 105,000 Americans," Doyle asks, "than a Honda built in Ohio from a company that employs 27,000? Domestic makers also purchase nearly 80 percent of the parts made here, and domestic vehicles average 76 percent U.S. content vs. 48 percent for U.S.-built imports. That represents billions of dollars in spending."

No, an "American" car or truck is one built by a U.S.-based company that supports primarily U.S. jobs and the U.S. economy, regardless of its parts content and especially its point of assembly.

And should Americans buy "American" out of patriotism. No, but they should carefully consider U.S.-brand vehicles - now that most are competitive or better in design, engineering, quality, and fuel economy - out of their own economic self-interest. Because whatever business they are in, every time "Detroit" and its struggling U.S. auto suppliers shed another 10,000, or 20,000, or 30,000 American workers, that multiplies to hundreds of thousands who can no longer afford whatever goods or services their own employers sell.

Think about it.
 

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The baby is a hairy coward. No wait....

I can't remember the details, but the child with either have dual citizenship until 18, then the child will be forced to choose one, or it should have French citizenship. The parents would have to contact the American embassy to see about having the rights switched to American.

Now if one of parents were military, the kid is American, as they most likely would have the child at the on-base med center.
 

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was watching some car show on espn the other day and they were talking about how ALL the BMW X5's are built in South Carolina and 55% of them are exported to other countries making it the most exported model from the U.S...

Justice is right, i knew a girl who was born in Japan (parents in the military) and she had until her 18th birthday to declare citizenship...She picked American.
 

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why not let the market decide? oah wait it already has. while the "big 3" and UAW were sitting around making a few people fat and rich jobs and comptetiveness suffered. If they truly are building competetive cars then the market will reward them. If they stay behind the curve then they will continue to loose market share and jobs.

I have to admit it's interesting how much this seems to be discussed on a board that currently centers around an australian built car referred to by many as american muscle.

all of the above is JMO
*putting on flame suit*
 

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why not let the market decide?
Overly simplistic argument.

First of all, an American car is a car built or sold by GM or Ford. They are headquartered in the United States so the profits stay here.

As for the "free market" simpletons, the United States, because its government is bought off by special interests, lobbyists and campaign contributions (a.k.a. bribes) allows its markets to remain "free" while everybody else we do business with (Europe, Asia, etc.) restricts imports via tariffs and various laws that drive costs up to the point where outsiders can't compete.

As a result, a $15,000 Korean Kia and $15,000 Japanese Toyota sells for $15,000 here in the United States, while a $15,000 GM Cobalt or FoMoCo Focus sells for $50,000 in Korea and Japan. Until that changes, anybody who chirps about letting the market decide can take that argument and stick it up their ass because if we're not allowed to compete over there then they should not be allowed to compete over here. Period.
 

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What if the kid was born in a Indian casino?? Does he get that money when he turns 18?
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! He gets a job with a computer company in the technical department fielding phone calls from irate computer owners who need help and cannot understand a damn word he says.. That's what he gets.

Or, he gets to be an owner of a Quickie Mart.
Tank yew berry goot, pleze com a-gain.:willy: :willy: :willy: :willy: :willy: :willy: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
 

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I'm really starting to hate the things I'm seeing in the world, I'm just gonna go be 12 again and re-inact my first peek at :eek:boobies:eek:

Not to jack the thread tho;
GTO be it made in Australia is a muscle car in its greatest form.
 

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:lol: :lol: Not that indian. The native American Indian.

OHHHHHHHHHHH Native Indiansssssss :confused

Well in that case, they will inherit the fight to rid Pro Teams, Colleges, and High Schools of the referencing of Native American mascots, and school names.

Here are a few names to replace some team names.

The Florida State Seminoles to be changed to the Florida State Crocodiles.
Atlanta Braves changed to Atlanta Confederates
Washington Redskins changed to Washington Filibusters
Cleveland Indians changed to Cleveland Carry's (named after Drew)
Just to name a few.

They can't attack wagon trains anymore so they will attack the referencing of Native names.
 

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Overly simplistic argument.

First of all, an American car is a car built or sold by GM or Ford. They are headquartered in the United States so the profits stay here.
Uh no, beg to differ. That sort of thinking is about 15 years out of date and reflects an hourly wage earner mentality where nearly all of your income is earned income from wages.

The world has changed, like it or not. The U.S. has transitioned from a primarily manufacturing based economy born of the industrial revolution to a more balanced model with service jobs playing a bigger role in the information age. Those people looking for the same jobs their mothers and fathers had in the 60's, 70's, and 80's are just not getting it.

A free market economy will find the most efficient way to operate (my opinion). Increasingly, businesses view their markets globally. Fifty years ago, textiles mfg shifted from an expensive base in the Northeast to the relatively cheap Southeast. And, people from Boston to Philly cried about the apocalypse. From there, in the late 20th century, they were forced to move again. This time it was offshore to developing countries with again.....cheaper operating environments. And the southern states cried about the apocalypse. We're still here!

The idea of an American vs Japanese company is lost in dust of history. Take a look around. The market is a global market. Investors (you and I) can quickly move capital from one continent or country to another. The idea of nationalistic boundaries may be relevant for political reasons but business has largely scrapped that antiquated structure and moved on to the realization that it doesn't work. Private enterprise will always be way ahead of government institutions.

People in this country need to stop looking at a paycheck as the sole way to earn money. With today's capital markets, you can invest directly or through a fund in almost any (public) company in any country on earth. If the action is in Japan, you should be in a growth fund with some interests in that country. If China becomes the next hot spot....same advice. My point here is that just because the manufacturing moves to China does not in any way mean the money stays there. It doesn't! Investors are pulling that money back to Europe, US, Aus, Russia, etc. every day.

Given the new global market reality, if you think you can show up every day to an assembly line ad infinitum, sorry! We as a nation and individuals are going to have to cope with the new reality. It's not going to go backward no matter how much we whine about it. We need to educate our kids to take advantage of these changes rather than yesterday's warm and cozy (but dead) reality. We need to put a lot more effort into career choices and preparation for same.

Granted, this all goes to hell in the next World War. But the tight economic interdependence of nation states on a global economy greatly reduces the the chance that anyone will find it feasible to start another stupid global war (my opinion again).

I personally don't care where my car was made or what nationalistic label you care to slap on it. I buy the best car I can find for my money and make no apolgies. I separate my decisions about consumption of disposable goods from decisions about my economic future.

Ok, soap box is collapsing, I'll get off now.
 

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Overly simplistic argument.

First of all, an American car is a car built or sold by GM or Ford. They are headquartered in the United States so the profits stay here.

As for the "free market" simpletons, the United States, because its government is bought off by special interests, lobbyists and campaign contributions (a.k.a. bribes) allows its markets to remain "free" while everybody else we do business with (Europe, Asia, etc.) restricts imports via tariffs and various laws that drive costs up to the point where outsiders can't compete.

As a result, a $15,000 Korean Kia and $15,000 Japanese Toyota sells for $15,000 here in the United States, while a $15,000 GM Cobalt or FoMoCo Focus sells for $50,000 in Korea and Japan. Until that changes, anybody who chirps about letting the market decide can take that argument and stick it up their ass because if we're not allowed to compete over there then they should not be allowed to compete over here. Period.
I agree with you on the tariff issue. My neighbors sister just came over with her husband to visit from Germany. His English was good and my German decent enough that we got to talking. He saw my car and got real excited. He went and got his camera and took a bunch of pictures and asked a bunch of questions. Then we started talking cars in general. A Porsche 911 in Germany costs 85-110,000 Euros which is about $110,000 to $140,000. About the same as here. A Corvette over there costs 65-100,000 Euros which is almost double what it would cost here. We started checking the prices on a bunch of cars and sure enough, European cars cost about the same here as over there. American cars that are exported there, like Jeeps, cost almost double what they cost here. It's not that American manufacturers don't make cars the Europeans would want, but that our cars cost too much for what they are. The CTS for example costs about 35,000 here. In Europe it's a 35,000-40,000 Euro car competing with 25,000 BMW 3 series. If it was 25,000 Euro it would definately sell better.

When this country was founded, the government was set up to get most of it's income from import tariffs. Now it generates most of it's income through taxes on citizens income and corporate taxes.

What we really need to do is raise import tariffs and eliminate or lower income taxes and corporate taxes. This would make US goods cheaper here and imported goods more expensive. Also because we eliminated corporate taxes our goods would be cheaper overseas. You would see manufacturing increase and no decrease in the technology and service industries.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
What we really need to do is raise import tariffs and eliminate or lower income taxes and corporate taxes. This would make US goods cheaper here and imported goods more expensive. Also because we eliminated corporate taxes our goods would be cheaper overseas. You would see manufacturing increase and no decrease in the technology and service industries.
But then we would have to pay more for the crap at Wal-Mart!:rolleyes:

There are too many people that aren't willing to spend a few extra bucks to buy something that is made in the USA.

Way too many people would throw a bitch-fit if that happened. They are not willing to pay a little more to make their own jobs, in the USA, more valuable. The average American only thinks in the short-term.

IF we can change are way of thinking, we may be able to save our economy.
 
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