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Discussion Starter #4
See if this works...if so I'll post more pics


/Users/frankraspanti/Desktop/MVC-004F.JPG/Users/frankraspanti/Desktop/MVC-003F.JPG
 

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They can ask the moon if they want, the reality of it is someone put $$$ into it and they want to recoup what they invested. Essentially you are buying a VIN number. I almost purchased an exceptionally well done 1970 Lemans Sport JUDGE clone. The only thing that differed between that car and a real Judge was the VIN. I was ok with that because the price was right 25K. The title was NOT cleared or I'd have it now. Thats it in my avatar.

There are clones on ebay with ridiculously high reserves. I posted one a while ago, a 69 judge vert NO RA with ONE snorkel and it was a genuine authentic CLONE and the goof wanted 150K or so for it. He had it up twice and it never sold on ebay..... These guys are looking for just the RIGHT SAP.

Here is another clone....

eBay Motors: Pontiac : Le Mans (item 130215339051 end time Apr-26-08 19:21:32 PDT)

I have no doubt that car was all dude-ed up well, but NOT for 40K. Notice the model of the car ....Lemans GTO....There is no such thing. A dealer with sleazy wording.

There are others on here MUCH more astute to the 64-67 years than I and would give you their opinions, but IMO.... the car you are referring to....No way would I fork out what you say they want. Notice, it's a dealer. Chances are the salesman wasn't even born when that car was originally built.



If you can get the VIN decode it use the information below. Niotice in bold below 37= GTO in 1965, this is new to me I wasn't aware of that.

1965-1971 VINs


1st digit - Division - 2 = Pontiac
2nd & 3rd digits - Series:

23 = Firebird
33 = Tempest (1965-70)
33 = LeMans T-37 (1971)
35 = Tempest Custom (1965-70)
33 = LeMans (1971)
37 = Tempest LeMans (1965-70)
37= GTO ( 1965 )
37 = LeMans Sport (1971)
39 = Tempest Safari (1967-69)
42 = GTO (1966-71)
52 = CATALINA
62 = Bonneville
66 = Grand Prix

4th & 5th digits - Body Code:
07 = 2-door sedan (post)
17 = 2-door coupe
27 = 2-door sedan (post)
35 = 4-door wagon, 2 seat
36 = 4-door wagon, 2 seat,
dual action tailgate
37 = 2-door coupe
39 = 4-door coupe
46 = 4-door wagon, 3 seat,
dual action tailgate
67 = 2-door convertible
69 = 4-door sedan

6th digit - Model Year:
5 = 1965
6 = 1966
7 = 1967
8 = 1968
9 = 1969
0 = 1970
1 = 1971


7th digit - Assembly plant:
A = Atlanta, GA
B = Baltimore, MD
C = Southgate, CA
D = Doraville, GA
E = Linden, NJ
G = Framingham, MA
K = Kansas City, MO
P = Pontiac, MI
R= Arlington, TX
U = Lordstown, OH
V = Bloomfield, IL
X = Kansas City, KS
Z = Fremont, CA
1 = Oshava, Ontario Canada

Last 6 digits - Production sequence starting at 600001
at all plants, except V8 models which started at 100001.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Ok Judge- I will attempt to get the VIN on the car but I think you were accurate when you said low twenties to begin with.
Thank you for all the information....really-thank you!
 

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Ok Judge- I will attempt to get the VIN on the car but I think you were accurate when you said low twenties to begin with.
Thank you for all the information....really-thank you!
Welcome....... Randy is really sharp with those years as well as Rukee and a few others, they could help you with info on those years.
 

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Welcome....... Randy is really sharp with those years as well as Rukee and a few others, they could help you with info on those years.
Thanks Vic,

IMHO, It's not worth more than 10 to 15 K, Look for 65s built in the Pontiac or the Kansis City plants, they are 237 vins but will include the accessory code of 5n on the data plate.

If you find a 65 built in the Freemont or Baltimore plants the only way to verify that it is a true GTO would be to order a document packet from PHS.

Good luck,
 

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Hey GTO Judge,
I checked out the "Lemans GTO" ad. I can't believe they are actaully advertising the car like that! When I read: "The LEMANS GTO is the epitome of sports cars" I almost spit my drink out!!! It really irritates me when I read garbage like that. You would hope noone is gullible enough to buy it.
 

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Hey GTO Judge,
I checked out the "Lemans GTO" ad. I can't believe they are actaully advertising the car like that! When I read: "The LEMANS GTO is the epitome of sports cars" I almost spit my drink out!!! It really irritates me when I read garbage like that. You would hope noone is gullible enough to buy it.
Its a genuine NON matching numbers clone LMAO. Crager wheels instead of the honey combs. Nice touch. It's a rare replica! WOW! $$$. That will lure em' in. lmao.

With a little tweaking ~~>

The lucky winner of this auction will have the opportunity to own this grossly overpriced low mileage 1971 Pontiac LEMANS GTO. Don't look for the paperwork to say LEMANS GTO, we built this just for you. The paint has a showroom shine. Imagine that. The paint is in excellent condition and it is apparent that this car was garaged and meticulously-maintained. With just 58847 miles, this car is barely broken in. A little old lady drove this only to church on Sundays and kept this car a deep hidden secret from everyone until NOW!! The interior of this vehicle is virtually flawless and it still has the new car smell!! This is one of the most desirable color combinations. (We added this touch, although we can't substantiate this claim.) A LEMANS GTO in this condition, with these options and this color combination is an absolute rarity! That's because we invented this particular model. It's one of a kind!

This vehicle is over priced and we hope it sells, are you the right one? You'll find a better price for a vehicle elsewhere like this but we think the picture of the car will incite the fool in you. Our "Buy it Now" price is is a gimmick we rely on to let you know there are people out there not really interested but we hope you think otherwise, move fast---act quickly we want to unload this! The LEMANS GTO is the epitome of sports cars! This is the only LEMANS GTO and we have it just for you so it will sell quickly we sure hope, the longer it sits we may have to lower the price! This particular model came with the Judge glove box emblem delete. In addition, you are saving an additional 3,000 because of the RAM AIR delete!!!!!!!! We are throwing in a set of JUDGE floor mats a 250.00 value.

This car is indeed a rarity, this car has it all, part GTO, Lemans Sport, Lemans and T-37, and we have the owners manual to prove it!!

We can help facilitate low-cost shipping directly to your door, 39800 isn't enough to rake out of you, for an added 2,000 we will make sure you were snookered.
 

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Not stirring the pot here, but "technically" a 72 GTO is a LeMans. Since the GTO reverted to an option package in 72, the VIN on a 72 will indeed be 37 and not 42.

mac
 

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Yeah but that clone is a 71. And it's a Genuine artificial fake. :eek:
:willy: Oh, my bad! I guess I shouldn't try and be too knowledgable before 7am! :D

mac
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Count me in as one of those suckers, because I wish I had the GTO LeMans in my driveway. The car is in mint condition, a 455 HO engine.....I really wouldn't mind if it were derived from a twinkie, I'd drive it every day.

How do you gentlemen explain the 71' owners manual? I know you guys are the experts but I think that is a very sweet car.
Compared to the 34000.00 clone I originally asked about, the 71 LeMans would be worth 40 easily but I know the clone is not worth 34000 either.
 

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The 71' owners manual would pertain to the models in there. They all intertwine and features are the same, mostly.

Like I said, I almost had a clone. What is the dif....if you have a real GTO and it was restored with all Lemans parts, or a Lemans that was built up to a GTO and has all the bells and whistles of a GTO? The VIN. You are paying for a VIN number. If you can look past the VIN ID you can get a real value. I struggled with it, and I see the prices I'd have it now or not being it was being sold illegally. You have to really watch what you are doing and do your homework, there is a lot of deceiving going on in the market.

You have guys who want Authentic pricing for a clone. The GTO 42 number carries a higher price tag than does the 37 Lemans. If you don't care, and the price is right, so what? It all depends on what you want and what your wallet will dictate.
 
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