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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got to thinking the other day about how stupid GM has become, and wondering what new gimmick they'd come up with next to give their cars away, and drive down the value of the ones we own... and got to thinking once again how they've never marketed the GTO appropriately from day one.

Anyone who's ever driven a new GTO knows it's a much higher caliber car than the Mustang or even the Camaro/Firebirds that everyone wants to compare it to. So why didn't GM market it against an M6 instead of setting it in the back corner of a Pontiac lot?

Since I've been to Australia, which is where I fell in love with Holdens (and several other cars we can't get here), I have some idea what things cost there versus here... and I'd never checked to see what a GTO sells for there.

Just for the heck of it, I just went to the Holden and HSV sites to see if there were prices on them. First of all, from what I can see, the 2005 Pontiac GTO isn't an equivalent to a Holden Monaro, it's an equivalent of a Holden HSV GTO Coupe.

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=12001

http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vz/main.asp?link=main/gto.html

Base price for the Monaro is $60,490 AU, and base price for the GTO Coupe is $78,840 AU.

Using a conversion calculator on
http://www.x-rates.com/calculator.html
$78,840 is equivalent to $60,115 US dollars.

Absolutely incredible that we can buy a car of that caliber for half price !!! I bet the Aussies would love to come here and take one home with them ;)

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in my assumptions here.
 

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The GTO is the automotive worlds best kept secret (relatively speaking) as well as best high end performance value going right now. I laugh when it's compared to a Suburu or Mustang. A better comparison is a BMW 6 series, or like one Car and Driver reader noted, "poor mans Ferrari 550 Maranello". The built quality, refinement, big block power and performance are more comparable to those cars than some cheesy rice box or mass produced Mustang. That said, with only 10-12,000 cars coming to the shores this year, they don't have to promote the car. From what I can see, the dealers around here are selling every one they get their hands on. I haven't seen any on dealer lots in the past month or so. From this point, GM can only use it as an image car, to boost their overall brand. Too bad people are going to be in for a rude awakening if they think a Grand Prix is a 4 door GTO, or a G6 is a GTO with a small motor. I just hope they keep the car just like it is, and keep importing it in small numbers. I'd like to see resale stay strong on this car. I've had mine for 3 months now, and about 7,000 miles. I think I've seen a total of 4-5 GTOs on the road in that time. I like that, as an owner. The first month or two hardly anyone paid attention to it, but in the last month, almost daily, someone is coming up asking me about the car. They're all impressed when they look inside and hear what it has for a motor.
 

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GTOfreak said:
The GTO is the automotive worlds best kept secret (relatively speaking) as well as best high end performance value going right now. I laugh when it's compared to a Suburu or Mustang. A better comparison is a BMW 6 series, or like one Car and Driver reader noted, "poor mans Ferrari 550 Maranello". The built quality, refinement, big block power and performance are more comparable to those cars than some cheesy rice box or mass produced Mustang. That said, with only 10-12,000 cars coming to the shores this year, they don't have to promote the car. From what I can see, the dealers around here are selling every one they get their hands on. I haven't seen any on dealer lots in the past month or so. From this point, GM can only use it as an image car, to boost their overall brand. Too bad people are going to be in for a rude awakening if they think a Grand Prix is a 4 door GTO, or a G6 is a GTO with a small motor. I just hope they keep the car just like it is, and keep importing it in small numbers. I'd like to see resale stay strong on this car. I've had mine for 3 months now, and about 7,000 miles. I think I've seen a total of 4-5 GTOs on the road in that time. I like that, as an owner. The first month or two hardly anyone paid attention to it, but in the last month, almost daily, someone is coming up asking me about the car. They're all impressed when they look inside and hear what it has for a motor.

:agree
 

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The less it's marketed the better, in my opinion. I hope the Goats do their thing through 2006 and then stop production (as Pontiacs, at least). I am a previous owner of a 1993 GMC Typhoon, and I absolutely craved the attention it got. 2 year production of this totally un-advertised street monster, and 10 years after the fact, even a stock Ty would draw huge amounts of respect and "man I wish I got me one of those when I had the chance" commentary.

The way I see it, our GTOs aren't exactly flying out of the dealerships, and their market impact zone has long since passed (if GM really wanted to unload these cars, they would have released a heavy marketing campaign pre-2004, and then an equally strong revitalization campaign pre-2005 noting the upgrades). If the (Pontiac) GTOs have a 3 year stay in the states, 5 years down the line they will be heralded and respected on the same level as Grand Nationals and the Syclones/Typhoons...and just look, no one complains about the "understated" appearance of those rides! It's all about rarity and performance!
 

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spylab said:
The less it's marketed the better, in my opinion. I hope the Goats do their thing through 2006 and then stop production (as Pontiacs, at least). I am a previous owner of a 1993 GMC Typhoon, and I absolutely craved the attention it got. 2 year production of this totally un-advertised street monster, and 10 years after the fact, even a stock Ty would draw huge amounts of respect and "man I wish I got me one of those when I had the chance" commentary.

The way I see it, our GTOs aren't exactly flying out of the dealerships, and their market impact zone has long since passed (if GM really wanted to unload these cars, they would have released a heavy marketing campaign pre-2004, and then an equally strong revitalization campaign pre-2005 noting the upgrades). If the (Pontiac) GTOs have a 3 year stay in the states, 5 years down the line they will be heralded and respected on the same level as Grand Nationals and the Syclones/Typhoons...and just look, no one complains about the "understated" appearance of those rides! It's all about rarity and performance!
Right on the money!!! :agree
 

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I don't know about anyone else but, I for one don't want Pontiac promoting the GTO. What this means to us owners is higher resale value, and a car people want but can't get. This keeps the value of the GTO higher. Let Ford flood the market with their retro stang. I am seeing them everywhere now, and I see no GTO's except mine. (Well I did see a black one a few weeks ago.) Next year go price used Mustangs. Watch the value of that car decline while the GTO stays the same. I kinda like having a car people want but are having a hard time getting. GM's marketing strategy means Our GTO's will command a high price on the sales block, and people offering us $$$ for it. The more they flood the market with them the easier they will be able to get, the more they will depreciate. Just think if GM abandoned making anymore of them (which I don't think they will) GTO owners could command a nice return on an "investment." That's my 2 cents worth. :willy:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well I'm happy all u guys feel this way... but I'm an old dude... and I used to sell cars... and I'm on vehicle #52... and I just sold #52 because GM kept offering a higher rebate than last month on it, and its resale value just kept plummeting (it only went from MSRP $36,000 to $18,000 in 30 months). I've seen too many Cadillac Cateras and Mercury Capris and various other attempts by mfrs to bring siblings to the US, and not market them properly, and then when they didn't sell enough units, dump the brand.

I've owned 10 Corvettes... all of them between 61 and 73. The great thing about them was that GM hyped them, and by limiting production, GM kept their resale value high. I haven't owned one since then because GM started overproducing them and thus they became just another car they had to give away and the resale value has never been the same. For example, I bought a new 67 Corvette for $3,975... drove it for 2 years (28,000 miles) and sold it for $3,600. Bought a new 96 Mustang GT convertible for $26,000, drove it for 11 months (5,000 miles), and all I could get for it was $18,000. Excuse me while I froth at the mouth again... LOL

As for dealers not having any to sell... not sure where u live, but last time I checked the online inventory for Pontiac dealers, there were dozens of brand new 2004 GTOs still sitting on the lot. I see one every time I drive past the Pontiac dealer here in Sacramento. Last time I saw, the sign said $22,999. In my wildest imagination, I can't figure out why someone would buy a new Mustang instead. Speaking of which, I looked at a new Mustang GT fastback recently, because I was curious of how much room was in the back when u fold the seat down. What a joke !!! I'm embarrassed for Ford to show anyone what it looks like when u fold the seat down... indoor/outdoor carpet, unfinished, and rough metal edges around the side... WOW Certainly isn't like the quality they put in the 65-68 that they tried to mimic. And yes, once the initial demand is fulfilled, these Mustangs will be half price (seen the price on a PT Cruiser lately?).

spylab said:
The less it's marketed the better, in my opinion. I hope the Goats do their thing through 2006 and then stop production (as Pontiacs, at least). I am a previous owner of a 1993 GMC Typhoon, and I absolutely craved the attention it got. 2 year production of this totally un-advertised street monster, and 10 years after the fact, even a stock Ty would draw huge amounts of respect and "man I wish I got me one of those when I had the chance" commentary.

The way I see it, our GTOs aren't exactly flying out of the dealerships, and their market impact zone has long since passed (if GM really wanted to unload these cars, they would have released a heavy marketing campaign pre-2004, and then an equally strong revitalization campaign pre-2005 noting the upgrades). If the (Pontiac) GTOs have a 3 year stay in the states, 5 years down the line they will be heralded and respected on the same level as Grand Nationals and the Syclones/Typhoons...and just look, no one complains about the "understated" appearance of those rides! It's all about rarity and performance!
 

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73LS4 said:
I've owned 10 Corvettes... all of them between 61 and 73. The great thing about them was that GM hyped them, and by limiting production, GM kept their resale value high. I haven't owned one since then because GM started overproducing them and thus they became just another car they had to give away and the resale value has never been the same. For example, I bought a new 67 Corvette for $3,975... drove it for 2 years (28,000 miles) and sold it for $3,600. Bought a new 96 Mustang GT convertible for $26,000, drove it for 11 months (5,000 miles), and all I could get for it was $18,000. Excuse me while I froth at the mouth again... LOL
Back in the 1960s and 70s, automobiles had a great deal more hand-craft involved than they do now. The machinery and robotics were just 'not there' - thus, setting a low production number would overall mean less labor for the workers; no big deal.

In today's automotive market, pretty much every piece of a car is done entirely hands-free, so it is no longer economically feasible to specify 2000 of a vehicle per year for 3 years and then can the entire thing, and expect it to fit in the low $30k price range. Those machines only start making money when larger runs are produced, so the time to set them up to produce certain panels and parts has to be relative to the expected number of sales. Otherwise, you'd probably be talking the $40-$50k range for new GTOs if the number was as restrictive as old Vettes (which, as we can tell from current sales of GTOs at $33k, would mean an instant axe to the model).

It is a Catch 22. Produce a low number for a lot of money, thus restricting the buying market greatly but improving demand and resale value; or produce a larger number for less money - sell a greater number of vehicles, but lose a little in the long term value. Obviously, unless you are talking high-end luxury or sports cars, the latter is the more logical choice.
 

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Me personaly I don't give 2 patches of puppy sh1t if they advertise it or not, im having to much fun enjoying my car. If I ever get to the point were im worried about the resale value on my gto its time to find another job, cuz when im ready for a new one the one I have now is going to be a track car.
 

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The most they can import per an agreement with the UAW is 18,000 units. For 2005 that was adjusted to 15,000 units and it looks like they will be able to sell that easy. No real reason to invest a lot of money in commercials, ads, etc when the most you can sell is capped at 18,000. If they create too much demand that is as bad as not enough, as the result will be deler gouging and/or disappointed customers. There have been some ads in the enthusiast magazines with the tie-in to GTO's racing debut as well as Speed Channel show Sunday at 4:30 PM.
 

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theamcguy said:
The most they can import per an agreement with the UAW is 18,000 units. For 2005 that was adjusted to 15,000 units and it looks like they will be able to sell that easy. No real reason to invest a lot of money in commercials, ads, etc when the most you can sell is capped at 18,000. If they create too much demand that is as bad as not enough, as the result will be deler gouging and/or disappointed customers. There have been some ads in the enthusiast magazines with the tie-in to GTO's racing debut as well as Speed Channel show Sunday at 4:30 PM.
:agree
 

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gpro102 said:
73LS4,
Which Sacramento dealership did you see GTO for $22,999? Are they 2004 new? For that price, maybe it's worth it to get 04 than 05. What do you guys think?
If I could have found a new 04' for 9k off what I paid for my 05' I would have bought it. Think CAI, headers, exhaust, and a good tune would have put me within striking distance of the 05' power and I'd still have 5-6 thousand in the bank. Only other major difference is the brakes. I'd say if you are close to Sac go get it.
 

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spylab said:
The less it's marketed the better, in my opinion. I hope the Goats do their thing through 2006 and then stop production (as Pontiacs, at least). I am a previous owner of a 1993 GMC Typhoon, and I absolutely craved the attention it got. 2 year production of this totally un-advertised street monster, and 10 years after the fact, even a stock Ty would draw huge amounts of respect and "man I wish I got me one of those when I had the chance" commentary.

The way I see it, our GTOs aren't exactly flying out of the dealerships, and their market impact zone has long since passed (if GM really wanted to unload these cars, they would have released a heavy marketing campaign pre-2004, and then an equally strong revitalization campaign pre-2005 noting the upgrades). If the (Pontiac) GTOs have a 3 year stay in the states, 5 years down the line they will be heralded and respected on the same level as Grand Nationals and the Syclones/Typhoons...and just look, no one complains about the "understated" appearance of those rides! It's all about rarity and performance!
:agree Spylab you are absolutely right. I bought an 87 Grand National when it was 6 years old. Having a 70 GTO when I was in high school it took me a while to accept that a 6 cylinder could be that fast. I still own the GN and I still love it. But ever since I bought it, I could kick myself for not buying one new. I felt that I could not make the same mistake with the new GTOs and bought mine last week. It is funny that the Mustang was always the arch nemesis of our Turbo Buick Clubs and Web Forums also. It stems from all the hype and advertising that Ford has done over the years. It is not that the Mustang is the standard everyone has to measure speed or quality against. It is that Ford through over-marketing has made owning a Mustang so common that you have to compare it because of the masses that do own them (good for Ford, bad for Mustang owners). I hope Ford sells a Billion of them and the GTO only lasts through the 06 production year. My GTO stays in the garage except on sunny days and in 5, 10, or 15 years from now when today’s Mustangs are a dime a dozen, I want people to still turn their heads in awe just as they do now for my 05 GTO as well as the old 87 GN.
 

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Braman'sGTO said:
Me personaly I don't give 2 patches of puppy sh1t if they advertise it or not, im having to much fun enjoying my car. If I ever get to the point were im worried about the resale value on my gto its time to find another job, cuz when im ready for a new one the one I have now is going to be a track car.
Sorry, I have to chime in, that is hilarious "2 patches of puppy sh!t"!!!! I don't think I've heard that one.... :lol: :lol:
 
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