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I criticize clones Vs anything, simply because I have run into so many where they just stopped being referred to as clones and start becoming the authentic item for sake of increased value in a sale... Like democrats say, a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth.
 

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I criticize clones Vs anything, simply because I have run into so many where they just stopped being referred to as clones and start becoming the authentic item for sake of increased value in a sale... Like democrats say, a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth.
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In 35 years, the on;y people whom Ive ever heard bad-mouthing or questioning clones, are chumps on the street. Ive never heard anyone on this forum... in other words, the experts, say anything negative about a Lemans.

And... Just as with anything else, street chumps only ever know just enough to get their foot in their mouth.

They always know about 6 packs, but never why or when they were used. They never know that all GTO's had Pontiac engines, and not a "Big Block or Small Block".

If you're asking why a GTO is perceived to be more important, it's because it was the commercialized, high performance version of the car... so bluebook is higher.

But as you pointed out, IME, most Lemans were far better optioned than GTO's. Personally, I'd have changed over all of the vin stuff... but regardless... people are idiots. Theyve learned all that they know about politics, covid, and muscle cars from either sitting in a bar or facebook.

Next time that someone asks about your 242, ask them if their favorite GTO was the 67, big-block, six pack. When they say yes, you will be satisfied.
[/QUOTE
Great comeback question Army.
 

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I don't care for the term clone or the term tribute. Call it what it is and that would be a Lemans with GTO badging.
It's a piece of art. Do people criticize a print of an original painting? No they don't nor should anyone. Same with a car. As long as a person is totally honest when asked or selling, what difference does it make? Answer is none.
Do what makes YOU happy!
 

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So I think i have a clone~ my VIN starts with 804B--- denotes a :
8 - V8
0 - Tempest
4 - 1964
B - Built in Baltimore.

But my body ID plate has 2227 which indicates 2door Lemans sports coupe... I bought is as a GTO 'tribute' car. It looks exactly like the GTO except the tail lights are on the corners not the strip under the trunk. I am fine with clones that look like the real deal- cheaper, for one. And at least with my year, 1964, whether its a GTO, tempest or lemans, they are all getting really hard to find. It all comes down to personal preference... Would you rather pay north of $60 grand for a matching numbers or 30k for a really well done clone? I would be too paranoid to drive a real GTO for fear of damaging it. As for my car, it does have a true GTO hood, and a built motor- i am pushing low 13s in the quarter....And that's what a goat was- massive engine in a small size car. So if you have a clone, enjoy it. Drive it. There are not too many goats out there... and too many camaros chevelles and mustangs.
 

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Why does everyone want to criticize a clone so much? Because it's a fake. There is no other way to say it. Lets look at the art world for reference. If I hire a master artist to paint an exact copy of the Mona Lisa because I can't afford the real one when he is done it is not a tribute painting, a recreation, or even a clone it is a fake. In the car hobby we use euphemisms like tribute, recreation, and clone to avoid using the word which describes exactly what the car is, it is a fake pure and simple. You might enjoy your car, you may have built it and did a real nice job, but it is still a fake. I'm sorry you cannot afford a real GTO I can't afford the Mona Lisa; doesn't mean I'll spend my time painting an exact copy because when I'm done I'll have a fake. In the car hobby we need to stop using words like tribute car, recreation, and clone and call these cars what they are fakes; maybe if we do these cars will stop popping up like weeds on a finely manicured golf course.
 
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Why does everyone want to criticize a clone so much? Because it's a fake. There is no other way to say it. Lets look at the art world for reference. If I hire a master artist to paint an exact copy of the Mona Lisa because I can't afford the real one when he is done it is not a tribute painting, a recreation, or even a clone it is a fake. In the car hobby we use euphemisms like tribute, recreation, and clone to avoid using the word which describes exactly what the car is, it is a fake pure and simple. You might enjoy your car, you may have built it and did a real nice job, but it is still a fake. I'm sorry you cannot afford a real GTO I can't afford the Mona Lisa; doesn't mean I'll spend my time painting an exact copy because when I'm done I'll have a fake. In the car hobby we need to stop using words like tribute car, recreation, and clone and call these cars what they are fakes; maybe if we do these cars will stop popping up like weeds on a finely manicured golf course.
Stone cold but true.

Truth always hurts people's feelings but only those people who perpetuate the untrue.
 

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But it's not a fake.
It's a real car. It's made from the same exact parts made at the same time and factory. Still, I believe in total honesty when it comes to presentation. It makes a huge difference to some people but no difference to others while many will have mixed feelings. But I am for people making themselves happy no matter what other people may think.
 

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X2 with Roger , most people can鈥檛 afford the real thing. Do what you want, but don鈥檛 misrepresent at sale.
 

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Why does everyone want to criticize a clone so much? Because it's a fake. There is no other way to say it. Lets look at the art world for reference. If I hire a master artist to paint an exact copy of the Mona Lisa because I can't afford the real one when he is done it is not a tribute painting, a recreation, or even a clone it is a fake. In the car hobby we use euphemisms like tribute, recreation, and clone to avoid using the word which describes exactly what the car is, it is a fake pure and simple. You might enjoy your car, you may have built it and did a real nice job, but it is still a fake. I'm sorry you cannot afford a real GTO I can't afford the Mona Lisa; doesn't mean I'll spend my time painting an exact copy because when I'm done I'll have a fake. In the car hobby we need to stop using words like tribute car, recreation, and clone and call these cars what they are fakes; maybe if we do these cars will stop popping up like weeds on a finely manicured golf course.
So if I like the Mona lisa and want one in my house of course I would have to get a reprint and as long as I don't try and sell it as the original what's wrong with being happy? Just because someone buys all the correct gto parts and installs them himself instead of some guy on an assembly line doing it when a Lemans came down the line and the build sheet said put the gto parts on this one no one should be hating on them. He's right most people can't afford a factory gto because the prices are crazy so I guess then you're not supposed to make yourself happy? Again as long as you don't lie to a seller or switch vin tags you're not hurting anyone and last time I was at a show they didn't ask for your vin number, research it and say "oh no you can't put gto on the window card". People make so many other wild modifications that don't make sense to a nice car that I'm not worried about checking every gto's vin number, and they aren't popping up like weeds...that would be Chevelles, Mustangs, and Cameros. Life's to short to be angry at first world problems 馃憤
 

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...Do what you want, but don鈥檛 misrepresent at sale.
To add to that, I'd say don't misrepresent or skirt a question if asked at any time. And don't change any numbers on the car. Do what you want but do it without guilt or shame. Do it with pride and be totally open about it.
 
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Hey it's your car do you want with it but the original question posted was "Why does everyone want to criticize a clone so much?" the answer is because it is a fake. Whether it's jewelry, art work, baseball cards etc, people don't like fakes.
 

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I just think "fakes" is to harsh I think "modified with gto options" just like the factory did especially '64-'66 did is a better classification. Yes in a perfect world we would all have 40, 50, 60,000.00 to get a factory numbers matching gto but most don't, I certainly don't but many can scrape up 20-30,000.00. And so what if you do have a factory gto but not the correct motor or other parts or like the guy who's got wrecked now it's not like it came from the factory except for those couple of numbers on the vin tag. What about OMT taking his originally purchased '64 and turning into a race car, are people hating on him?...I guess not because it still has those couple of different numbers on the vin tag. Maybe this site is geared more towards number matching purists than modified hot rods and that's why the reactions idk, but I appreciate all of the old cars, most of today's cars all look the same and are boring and made mostly of plastic.
 

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X2 with Roger , most people can鈥檛 afford the real thing. Do what you want, but don鈥檛 misrepresent at sale.
[/QUOTE
OR CAR SHOW. There was a person who had a Gto clone...how do I know? He still had the tempest lights on it. But his paper placard said Gto. He took second after me and burned others. Too bad the judges could not tell the difference
 

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That's not cool, he should do a better job making it a gto if that's what he's putting on the place card...lazy!
 

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Hmmmm鈥︹...

To save my ass from criticism I'm going to plead the 5th, but this had 20,000 original miles at the time it was chopped. YES, it's a real GTO

 

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So, you're saying "fakes" is not "politically correct"?

Sorry, I don't do "PC".

Maybe when enough snowflakes become a blizzard I'll be forced to but I'll be putting up a good fight.
I didn't say PC, I said harsh..I don't like PC either but now a days you do have to play along. I guess fake might be a Catalina with GTO badging and trying to call it a GTO. Like Roger said it's not a fake car someone other than the guy on the line put the gto badging on it and as long as you disclose that to a buyer or don't change vin tags I have no problem showing it as a gto.
 

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Agree a car show placard should have shown that it was a re-badged Tempest or Lemans no matter how well the conversion was done. But really, who cares about winning a trophy? I've never attended a car show that was judged with any real fair criteria. I couldn't care less whether I win one or not. I've thrown away every trophy I ever won except on which was a real unusual high quality best of show one I got. I go to a show for the socializing with other car enthusiasts and supporting a charity.
If it's a concours show, judges would always check for if it's an authentic car. If the owner changed the numbers and did the converson without detection, then shame on him.
 
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