Pontiac GTO Forum banner
41 - 60 of 83 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
429 Posts
Hmmm. This has gotten a bit ugly but I think the OP had gotten a pretty good look at both sides. Bottom line is some guys really don't care and others do.

Funny thing is what drew me to mine when I bought it was that it was still a LeMans and had not been cloned. I have no plans to convert it into a GTO but would probably have no choice if I ever nose into something. The front sheet metal and bumpers for a 70 LeMans are impossible to find. It took me a year to find a replacement for a broken front marker light. Even so, my car would fall into the "fake" category as well. It was born green over green and was a 350 car. Someone painted it red and swapped out the interior to black and installed a 400 out of a 1974 and it had a Saginaw 4 speed. I swapped out the trans to a Muncie out of a 69 Chevelle. I have a stroked 400 (461 from 1971) going back in (was installed a couple hours ago). I don't like the term fake personally. I call mine a mongrel.
 

·
Premium Member
1972 Pontiac Lemans GTO
Joined
·
1,117 Posts
Guys I think we should be thankful we own them being a tempest, lemans or the great one. I know at cruise ins there not many of us out there. That to me is what makes these tin Indians so special ❤Show the love
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
799 Posts
Agree a car show placard should have shown that it was a re-badged Tempest or Lemans no matter how well the conversion was done. But really, who cares about winning a trophy? I've never attended a car show that was judged with any real fair criteria. I couldn't care less whether I win one or not. I've thrown away every trophy I ever won except on which was a real unusual high quality best of show one I got. I go to a show for the socializing with other car enthusiasts and supporting a charity.
If it's a concours show, judges would always check for if it's an authentic car. If the owner changed the numbers and did the converson without detection, then shame on him.
I think putting that on a place card would just confuse people as the average person doesn't know about anything their looking at anyhow and there's not enough room on the place card 😉 also unless your entry fee supports a charity why do you register for a show if you just throw out the trophy, just park and don't register. I'm thinking of doing that because you're right most of the shows are clicky, I was at two this weekend that I just shake my head at who got awards. My feeling is everyone no matter who you are would rather have a compliment than a criticism...would you rather hear you have a nice haircut, a nice looking house and a nice car or your haircut looks terrible your house is a dump and your cars a beater. Roger you are doing such a fantastic job on your car don't tell me it's all for you to sit in a lawn chair with the garage door closed admiring it, you will definitely show it off and get compliments and trophies which you will deserve and it will make you smile because you know all the hard work, money, frustration was a appreciated, otherwise you would build a beater ...they're much cheaper and easier to build you know 😉
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
I think putting that on a place card would just confuse people as the average person doesn't know about anything their looking at anyhow and there's not enough room on the place card 😉 also unless your entry fee supports a charity why do you register for a show if you just throw out the trophy, just park and don't register. I'm thinking of doing that because you're right most of the shows are clicky, I was at two this weekend that I just shake my head at who got awards. My feeling is everyone no matter who you are would rather have a compliment than a criticism...would you rather hear you have a nice haircut, a nice looking house and a nice car or your haircut looks terrible your house is a dump and your cars a beater. Roger you are doing such a fantastic job on your car don't tell me it's all for you to sit in a lawn chair with the garage door closed admiring it, you will definitely show it off and get compliments and trophies which you will deserve and it will make you smile because you know all the hard work, money, frustration was a appreciated, otherwise you would build a beater ...they're much cheaper and easier to build you know 😉
I register when part of the money goes to charity. Yes, I want to show my car off. No question and I accept any trophy with a smile, shake hands and thank them like it means something just to be a team player. But I usually toss them after a few months or so. But I go to show off and share info and an opportunity to see other's cars. Not to win trophies. I really don't pay that much attention to them. I stay for the awards just to support the show
 
  • Like
Reactions: pontrc and Baaad65

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
People can justify all they want - but we are losing touch of the original question and the obvious answer. The original poster asked why are clones criticized so much. A very simple question. The answer is - because it is a fake. It's that simple.
 

·
Registered
1967 Lemans 1967 GTO parts car
Joined
·
472 Posts
They are an easy targets. People like to puff them selves up by putting things down. There are numberous reasons why someone would make a clone and only a few were to fool people. These cars are 50 plus. Things happen if I have a LeMans frame , Tempest drive train and GTO firewall and door frame its a GTO? Do I have a clone since the PO replaced the quarters and didnt put the gills back?

Some people will say your car is fake cause there is a non Pontiac washer some where on it.

So is the GTO a tribute or a clone of what people like my Dad that were dropping big engines in "little" cars back in the the 50s?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
There is a woman out here who goes around strutting her stuff telling everybody she owns a 1965 GTO Convertible.

One day, she did it to me.

I told her, "no you don't". She took offence to it and said, "YES, I do". I told her she didn't and that I'm the one that sold her ex-husband the parts needed to convert it from a LeMans to a GTO.

She don't say too much to me now.
Stone cold but true.

Truth always hurts people's feelings but only those people who perpetuate the untrue.
In case some people missed the point
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
791 Posts
I was at a car show once and came upon a 1970 chevelle super sport convertible ls6 4speed at a car show. I wanted to ask for a build sheet...a build sheet may best sole way to prove your 70 ss. But I let the dead dog lie. I told my wife that all the stars would have to line up for this car to have all this, and on top of that DRIVE (I asked) this 200k irreplaceable car there. Inquiring minds want to see the build sheet lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
I was at a car show once and came upon a 1970 chevelle super sport convertible ls6 4speed at a car show. I wanted to ask for a build sheet...a build sheet may best sole way to prove your 70 ss. But I let the dead dog lie. I told my wife that all the stars would have to line up for this car to have all this, and on top of that DRIVE (I asked) this 200k irreplaceable car there. Inquiring minds want to see the build sheet lol.
Every Chevy is an SS or a Z/28
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Well... might as well wade into this one with my 1st post. I could care less whether a 50+ year old car that is done right and nice is a "real GTO or a tribute GTO". It's the quality of the car that matters to me as long as someone is not trying to scam someone else. Doesn't mean the resale is the same... Years ago I took a stripper shortbed stepside 1972 Chevy pickup with a straight 6 and a 3 speed manual and used it as a basis for a frame off build. Did it right with a show quality paint and body job, 350 V8 and Turbo 350 automatic, put the Cheyenne Super interior, dash, body trim and moldings, grille, bumpers, etc on it. I wasn't trying to fool anyone just built it the way I wanted. I enjoyed it thoroughly and sold it a few years later. The guy I sold it to tried to represent it as an original truck. That is wrong. Period. Just be honest about what it is--real car people will enjoy it and appreciate it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
I do not have a problem with Clones/Tributes/Replicas either. As long as they are not falsely represented as being authentic. The thing is, GTOs, while very nice looking and desireable cars, are not really that unique. They are a Tempest design, built with some specific parts to create the GTO model. Generally, same body, frame, suspension design, etc. It is not rare like a Cobra or GT40. For example, in 1969, there were about 72000 GTOs manufactured and only about 27000 Tempests. I appreciate the GTO for the revolution it started, and I have loved them since childhood, but it is certainly not a car to get snobby about. My car is not a GTO. It is a Custom S with parts from various models to create a look that appeals to me. I have not badged it as a GTO. In fact, it has no badges at all, other than the original Custom S dash emblem and "PONTIAC" in the grille. When somebody asks me what it is, I usually just say it is a LeMans because 95% of people would have no clue about what a Custom S is, since it was a one year model. That is unless I am feeling talkative, and then I might go through the effort of explaining what a Custom S is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
In a weird way, I like that there are so many cloned LeMans (or LeManses?) out there. It just makes my "el natural" '65 LeMans stand out more at a car-cruise/show. There is always a real GTO, a few clones... errr... tributes and then my one LeMans.

I do have to be honest (even if slightly biased), I always liked the LeMans badging (at least in '65) better than the GTO, such as the full Pontiac in the grill, the separate letters on the rear quarter panel... and of course, the checkered flag in the correct shape! ;)
Automotive design Bumper Automotive exterior Motor vehicle Font Motor vehicle Vehicle Automotive design Bumper Automotive lighting Car Vehicle Automotive design Motor vehicle Grille
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
799 Posts
In a weird way, I like that there are so many cloned LeMans (or LeManses?) out there. It just makes my "el natural" '65 LeMans stand out more at a car-cruise/show. There is always a real GTO, a few clones... errr... tributes and then my one LeMans.

I do have to be honest (even if slightly biased), I always liked the LeMans badging (at least in '65) better than the GTO, such as the full Pontiac in the grill, the separate letters on the rear quarter panel... and of course, the checkered flag in the correct shape! ;)
View attachment 145706 View attachment 145707 View attachment 145708
Is that Reef Turquoise because it looks lighter like my '65 that someone painted and I'm trying to find out what color they used, I bought Reef Turquoise touch up and it's much darker than my paint.
Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Land vehicle
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Is that Reef Turquoise because it looks lighter like my '65 that someone painted and I'm trying to find out what color they used, I bought Reef Turquoise touch up and it's much darker than my paint. View attachment 145710
Originally, it was Palmetto Green (paint code H). When I had the car repainted 15 years ago in California, the shop kept calling it Seafoam Green, which is just the Buick equivalent. It does have a chameleon quality in that it changes between greenish blue to bluish green depending on the lighting and type of camera.
Tire Wheel Car Land vehicle Vehicle Wheel Car Tire Vehicle Motor vehicle
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,555 Posts
I have said this before, most of the car shows I go to, it seems that all GTO's, 1964-1966 ONLY came from the factory with tri-power and 4-speeds. 1967 and up GTO's all had Ram Air as a standard option and 4-speeds.

The factory, something I learned at a Pontiac show, had a very little known decal option on the white only 1966 GTO's that would be resurrected in 1969. And, a few, not a big batch, had factory 421's installed as proof of the fender badging on this red 1966 - and I know its true because this car has the badging.

I think the real reason why people clone/tribute a Tempest/Lemans is for resale value, as even a clone/tribute if well done can pull close, if not more in some cases, as a true GTO. Another thing to consider is how available parts are to obtain from the aftermarket community in making your Tempest/Lemans a GTO. So if you are going to rebuild your Tempest/Lemans and you need parts anyway, why not go the GTO route which may in fact be easier to source parts for than a Tempset/Lemans.

Then there is simply the immediate identification factor a GTO has from a mile away by just looking at the hood. And it seems everyone knew some one who owned a GTO at some point in their lives. So GTO connects far better than Tempest/Lemans.

So I cannot blame those who do the clone/tribute, BUT I am not one of them. I prefer to keep the exterior flavor of the original model, be it Tempest/Lemans, and then go from there. Change the interior, the driveline, and paint it any color you want. MY only real P-me-off upset is this:

Take a true GTO, yank the Pontiac engine and stuff in a Chevy, Olds, Build,Hemi, Mopar, Ford, or other make engine under the hood and you have totally destroyed what the car is all about - even it it is a GTO clone/tribute.

Hood Automotive lighting Grille Automotive design Automotive exterior
Tire Car Wheel Automotive lighting Hood
Car Wheel Tire Vehicle Land vehicle
Tire Car Wheel Land vehicle Vehicle
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
799 Posts
Originally, it was Palmetto Green (paint code H). When I had the car repainted 15 years ago in California, the shop kept calling it Seafoam Green, which is just the Buick equivalent. It does have a chameleon quality in that it changes between greenish blue to bluish green depending on the lighting and type of camera.
View attachment 145715 View attachment 145716
I'm sorry is there a car in the picture on the left 😉....my apologizes if those are family members, that really looks close to my color so maybe that's what they used. My car was originally red and I don't remember seeing a Palmetto Green in the '65 color chart when I tried to get touch up paint.
Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Land vehicle
Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Plant
Car Wheel Tire Vehicle Land vehicle
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
799 Posts
Originally, it was Palmetto Green (paint code H). When I had the car repainted 15 years ago in California, the shop kept calling it Seafoam Green, which is just the Buick equivalent. It does have a chameleon quality in that it changes between greenish blue to bluish green depending on the lighting and type of camera.
View attachment 145715 View attachment 145716
You're right it does flip flop depending on the light, my last picture is under 5K florescent lamps....whatever color mine is I'm keeping it because I get more compliments on the color than anything else.
 
41 - 60 of 83 Posts
Top